S&P Strikes Again

STEED · 01-13-12, 04:28 PM

France has lost there AAA+ Rating with S&P, now on AA+

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16552623

Austria also looks like there loosing there AAA+

Italy looks like a double whammy, there on A+ heading for BBB+

Don't panic France you still got AAA+ with Moody's & Fitch rating agency's.

Takeda Shingen · 01-13-12, 04:30 PM

Bwahahahaahahaha! Welcome to the club, boys. We've saved you a nice seat on the bench next to good ol' Uncle Sam.

GoldenRivet · 01-13-12, 04:32 PM

for both the US and France AA+ would still be pretty generous

STEED · 01-13-12, 04:45 PM

Italy has been downgraded to BBB+ and Spain down from AA+ to A.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...isis-live.html

STEED · 01-13-12, 04:49 PM

Finland & Germany keep there AAA+

updates...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...isis-live.html

Skybird · 01-13-12, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Finland & Germany keep there AAA+

updates...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...isis-live.html

But the EU states are working to pull Germany's rating down, too. The "fiscal pact" (hahaha, always these pathetic phrases, in German the word "Pakt" for a treaty has a very old-fashioned odor to it) is under heavy fire by attempts to soften up the key issues in it. States do not want to accept automatisms and EU courts (as if these are not already europhile enough) bringing them to courts when violating the debt breaks. States want that only a voting by other states can bring a violater to courts. In other words, since this event is extremly unlikely, they want to sanctions being imposed on anyone, ever.

And the German finance minister is reprted to secretly plan to bypass the debt break Germany alreadsy has implemented into its constitution, becoming valid in some years (in some years, yes, take your time, fellas, there is no need to hurry up...).

This to illustrate where the voyage is going: downwards.

Sun Tzu: he who tries to defend everything, will lose everything.

Oberon · 01-13-12, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sun Tzu: he who tries to defend everything, will lose everything.

This is too true, and says it all about the EU crisis.

Skybird · 01-13-12, 08:50 PM

After MONEY WARS: The Debt Strikes Back

it's now

MONEY WARS: Return Of The Rating.

They say a third part, titled MONEY WARS: No New Hope, is in the making.

yubba · 01-13-12, 09:31 PM

Kicrrr, the entitlements is strong with this one, kicrrrr........ eeeeeeewwww stupid they are, never socalism does work.

mookiemookie · 01-13-12, 10:42 PM

The ratings agencies are absolutely irrelevant, especially S&P who was a prime enabler of the financial crisis. They're just saying what the market has already known and priced in. The ratings agencies are always late to the party...they make these ratings changes and the media reports it like it's a huge deal and a shock, when in reality any market participant who pays even a modicum of attention has already realized that Europe is not as creditworthy as they were in the past.

Yawn.

Catfish · 01-14-12, 05:09 AM

" ... Standard & Poors is a United States-based financial services company. It is a division of The McGraw-Hill Companies that publishes financial research ... "

Ah, ok. Do they think the Dollar will be better off now ?

Those rating agencies should not be overrated themselves.
The only people who need rating agencies is the greedy stock market - screw them !
The world and people are better off without those artificial constructs.

Jimbuna · 01-14-12, 05:58 AM

Italy

BBB+ = Bunga Bunga Bailout+

Skybird · 01-14-12, 06:19 AM

Yes, rating agencies made mistakes, especially in 2008, they are likely to be under some political and informal influence/pressure form the US political class, and yes, they are mostly late to the party, just putting into a school-note what the markets for the most already knows.

That's why it is hilarious when Europeans in their attempt to glorigy and tell lies about the efficiency of European handling, accuse rating agencies to detoriate the situation by their assessments, causally. Europeans just try to blame them, and mistake cause and effect.

European tactics and handling of the crisis is anything but convoncing and shiny. But that does not mean that America'S handling of its problems is any better. Seen this way, European'S scepticism on the role of US rating agencies, in this regard is justified. Europe must not allow Washington to impose influence on European decision makers to change its policies according to American ways of printing money and making even more debts: the US state of things is not such that one could argue it gives evidence for the American way being right and correct. However, the claim over the role of rating agencies as helping to causally inflame symptoms of the crisis, is absurd. For the most they indeed are too late with their ratings, trying to catch up with reality's events that are in lead.

There are other rating agencies as well in the world, and I would have a look at the chinese ones, too. A few of them had downrated the US and European states long before this even was considered a possible event in the West.

Jimbuna · 01-14-12, 08:39 AM

It beats me why they are taken so seriously...but taken seriously they are

yubba · 01-14-12, 08:52 AM

Never under estimate the darkside of the S&P.

01-13-12, 04:28 PM	#1
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	S&P Strikes Again France has lost there AAA+ Rating with S&P, now on AA+ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16552623 Austria also looks like there loosing there AAA+ Italy looks like a double whammy, there on A+ heading for BBB+ Don't panic France you still got AAA+ with Moody's & Fitch rating agency's. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

01-13-12, 04:32 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	for both the US and France AA+ would still be pretty generous __________________

01-13-12, 04:45 PM	#4
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Italy has been downgraded to BBB+ and Spain down from AA+ to A. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...isis-live.html __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

01-13-12, 04:49 PM	#5
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Finland & Germany keep there AAA+ updates... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...isis-live.html __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

01-13-12, 08:50 PM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,714 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	After MONEY WARS: The Debt Strikes Back it's now MONEY WARS: Return Of The Rating. They say a third part, titled MONEY WARS: No New Hope, is in the making. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-13-12, 04:30 PM	#2
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Bwahahahaahahaha! Welcome to the club, boys. We've saved you a nice seat on the bench next to good ol' Uncle Sam.

01-13-12, 09:31 PM	#9
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Kicrrr, the entitlements is strong with this one, kicrrrr........ eeeeeeewwww stupid they are, never socalism does work. Last edited by yubba; 01-13-12 at 09:56 PM.

01-13-12, 10:42 PM	#10
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	The ratings agencies are absolutely irrelevant, especially S&P who was a prime enabler of the financial crisis. They're just saying what the market has already known and priced in. The ratings agencies are always late to the party...they make these ratings changes and the media reports it like it's a huge deal and a shock, when in reality any market participant who pays even a modicum of attention has already realized that Europe is not as creditworthy as they were in the past. Yawn. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

01-14-12, 05:09 AM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,802 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	" ... Standard & Poors is a United States-based* financial services company. It is a division of The McGraw-Hill Companies that publishes financial research* ... " Ah, ok. Do they think the Dollar will be better off now ? Those rating agencies should not be overrated themselves. The only people who need rating agencies is the greedy stock market - screw them ! The world and people are better off without those artificial constructs.

01-14-12, 05:58 AM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,938 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Italy BBB+ = Bunga Bunga Bailout+ __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-14-12, 06:19 AM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,714 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yes, rating agencies made mistakes, especially in 2008, they are likely to be under some political and informal influence/pressure form the US political class, and yes, they are mostly late to the party, just putting into a school-note what the markets for the most already knows. That's why it is hilarious when Europeans in their attempt to glorigy and tell lies about the efficiency of European handling, accuse rating agencies to detoriate the situation by their assessments, causally. Europeans just try to blame them, and mistake cause and effect. European tactics and handling of the crisis is anything but convoncing and shiny. But that does not mean that America'S handling of its problems is any better. Seen this way, European'S scepticism on the role of US rating agencies, in this regard is justified. Europe must not allow Washington to impose influence on European decision makers to change its policies according to American ways of printing money and making even more debts: the US state of things is not such that one could argue it gives evidence for the American way being right and correct. However, the claim over the role of rating agencies as helping to causally inflame symptoms of the crisis, is absurd. For the most they indeed are too late with their ratings, trying to catch up with reality's events that are in lead. There are other rating agencies as well in the world, and I would have a look at the chinese ones, too. A few of them had downrated the US and European states long before this even was considered a possible event in the West. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-14-12, 08:39 AM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,938 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	It beats me why they are taken so seriously...but taken seriously they are __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-14-12, 08:52 AM	#15
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Never under estimate the darkside of the S&P.