HMS Aboukir, HMS Hogue and HMS Cressy to be scrapped.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I don't know, my view is that this is not unlike the old practice of 'clearing' graveyards for new use; a common practice up until the 19th Century. It can be considered a desecration, or it can be thought of as forward-looking and utilitarian. Ultimately, it is only the living that squabble about it; the dead don't really care one way or another.

Well said.

Reminds me of the Japanese governments effort to clear Truk Lagoon of remains so it can be opened up as a dive resort. They handled it with dignity and reverence. Perhaps the same thing can be accomplished in this case.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Well, yes and no. I can completely understand your point and agree with it. However, I have no connection with those that died there. I probably wouldn't be crazy about somebody doing the same with the graves of my parents, so I can see the other side as well. It all depends on your perspective.

Fair ball. I see it as a distinction without a difference however.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I forgot, U-29's engine had died and they couldn't move.

Where did you get that from? Every account I've read says that U-29 was in the process of attacking the fleet when Dreadnought spotted the periscope and ran her over.

[Catfish]

Well it was U-29 which was sunk by a Dreadnought, but it had been U-9 which sunk the three cruisers. Of course, Weddigen had been commander of both.

Even if it had been defenseless and surfaced, Churchill's order was that "Shipwrecked crews [of U-boats] should be arrested or shot, whatever seems practical." A fleet being threatend by U-boats would have most probably made a ramming "more practical"

[Jimbuna]

Dreadnoughtserved with the 4th Battle Squadron in the North Sea during the first two years of World War I. On 18 March 1915, while so employed, she rammed and sank the German Submarine U-29.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/s...-d/drednt9.htm

[danny60]

This is abosluty outrageious,
I'm quite sure that ANY other country would have waged hell to prevent there war graves being scrapped. so, if its ok for the dutch to break up our wargraves, does that make it OK for me to go and break up the bismark?
I sure hope someone knocks some sense into the dutch soon.

[danny60]

This is absolutely outrageous, I'm quite sure that ANY other country would have waged hell to prevent there war graves being scrapped. So, if its ok for the dutch to break up our wargraves, does that make it OK for me to go and break up the bismark?
I sure hope someone knocks some sense into the dutch soon.

[August]

Originally Posted by danny60

...does that make it OK for me to go and break up the bismark?

Well let's see, did the German government sell you the Bismark wreck?

If not then no it doesn't.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Where did you get that from? Every account I've read says that U-29 was in the process of attacking the fleet when Dreadnought spotted the periscope and ran her over.

This is from wiki

ritish dreadnought battleships fired on their German counterparts during the war. However, she became the only battleship ever to sink a submarine when she rammed the SM U-29 when it unexpectedly broke the surface after firing a torpedo at another dreadnought in 1915.

Ah, here's the problem. I was thinking of the U-15

The engines had apparently failed as she was laying stopped on the surface in heavy fog when HMS Birmingham spotted her and could clearly hear hammering from inside the boat (presumably from attempted repairs). The cruiser fired on her but missed, and as the boat began to dive, she rammed her cutting her in two. This was the first U-boat loss to an enemy warship.

[Oberon]

Sounds to me like someone didn't adjust the trim after firing quick enough...

[Jimbuna]

She was rammed by Dreadnought....read the link in my earlier post

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

She was rammed by Dreadnought....read the link in my earlier post

I meant how she broached just before Dreadnought rammed her.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I meant how she broached just before Dreadnought rammed her.

Rgr that

[clive bradbury]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

There are more than a few crocodile tears being shed here and Britain's reasonably new-found reverence for the sanctity of marine war graves is rather odd given that the British Museum is chock full of loot pulled from the assorted graves of lesser cultures. Of course British commercial interests were involved in the scrapping of the Jutland wrecks SMS Lutzow and Pommern, both of which, by the standards claimed here, should have been preserved. Can't say who snagged HMS Queen Mary's propellers though.

Just a few points:

Which sources do you rely upon to support the accusation that the tears are 'crocodile' rather than related to genuine concern over a war grave? Or is it simply speculation on your part not backed by evidence?

The British Museum is certainly full of loot from graves. There is a name for that - archeology. If you are prepared to accuse British archeologists of being grave robbers then please extend that accusation to the providers of similar artifacts in US museums.

Could you please reference your source for the British commercial interests re the Pommern and Lutzow, both of which, as far as can be ascertained, were heavily salvaged by a GERMAN company in the 1950s and 60s?