Santorum brought home stillborn child...bat**** crazy alert.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

a newsworthy one at that


this thing however... meh not newsworthy

I personally think it's a bit macabre, but it's not really my place to say how someone should or shouldn't grieve.

Death photography to be very common in the Victorian era.

These photographs were a common aspect of American culture, a part of the mourning and memorialization process. Surviving families were proud of these images and hung them in their homes, sent copies to friends and relatives, wore them as lockets or carried them as pocket mirrors. Nineteenth-century Americans knew how to respond to these images. Today there is no culturally normative response to postmortem photographs.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

his family

his child

his business

Except when he chose to make it public business by using it during a political campaign. It's not like some paparazzi snapped a photo. He drew attention to it himself and used it as proof of his pro-life credentials in 2005 and again during the 2008 election cycle.

Again, I find it odd. Not in his shoes so I can't say how I'd react.

EDIT--Thanks mookie. That first photograph is going to give me nightmares.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Just saying the man should to be the rock in that situation, may not be easy but should to prevent looney, emotional decisions from being made.Sorry if you don't like the truth.

The truth is fine. Your opinion is fine. Your confusing one for the other is not.

[magicstix]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The truth is fine. Your opinion is fine. Your confusing one for the other is not.

Steve's right on IMO.

There's nothing wrong with bringing a dead loved one home for visitation. When my uncle died my Grandmother held visitation in her living room and refused to leave him at a funeral home. Before funeral homes became popular, people did exactly that, and would often hold wakes/funerals in their own houses.

It seems the only people who think this is crazy are those who already have a beef with Santorum because of political reasons.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by magicstix

Steve's right on IMO.

To be honest, I don't like this anymore than he does. I'm just aware that my opinion is only my opinion, and what I find distasteful someone else might actually find comforting.

There's nothing wrong with bringing a dead loved one home for visitation. When my uncle died my Grandmother held visitation in her living room and refused to leave him at a funeral home. Before funeral homes became popular, people did exactly that, and would often hold wakes/funerals in their own houses.

That's a good point, and coupled with mookie's link says a lot about how our perceptions of what's acceptable changes with time, even within the same culture.

It seems the only people who think this is crazy are those who already have a beef with Santorum because of political reasons.

Which is usually the case with political diatribe. The people who claim offence the loudest usually already have their agenda firmly in hand.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm putting this separately because I need to. Mookie's link made me think of something related. I have my own thread about the death of my friend Rocky, but posting this here seems apropos. All of our gaming buddies who still live nearby showed up. The wife of one of our members was taking pictures of various of us together when one said "Why don't we get one last picture of all of us together?"

So we posed around the casket for one last shot with Rocky in it. I'm still torn between "morbid" and "cool", and I suspect I always will be.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm putting this separately because I need to. Mookie's link made me think of something related. I have my own thread about the death of my friend Rocky, but posting this here seems apropos. All of our gaming buddies who still live nearby showed up. The wife of one of our members was taking pictures of various of us together when one said "Why don't we get one last picture of all of us together?"

So we posed around the casket for one last shot with Rocky in it. I'm still torn between "morbid" and "cool", and I suspect I always will be.

There is nothing actually wrong with that.Far cry from bringing a stillborn child home.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

To be honest, I don't like this anymore than he does. I'm just aware that my opinion is only my opinion, and what I find distasteful someone else might actually find comforting.


That's a good point, and coupled with mookie's link says a lot about how our perceptions of what's acceptable changes with time, even within the same culture.


Which is usually the case with political diatribe. The people who claim offence the loudest usually already have their agenda firmly in hand.

I have a problem with Santorum's mental state.I mentioned in another post I was liking him as an alternative to Romeny until I did some more research into his views and then came this story about the stillborn.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Havnt kept up with Santorum or really many recent events to be honest.

Yes... people do sometimes bring home their stillborn babies or babies who die within hours of birth before making further arrangements

this happens. I would likely do the same thing

unfortunately when someone who is in the media spotlight does it its suddenly a weird freakish thing that is frowned on.

his family

his child

his business

its not like they took the body home and went Donner party on it

Goes to his mentality and how he handles tough situations...grief, stress etc. If Santorum was not seeking power, okay he can be a weirdo all he wants but he is seeking the Presidency, it becomes our business if he can't make rational decisions when things are tough.Bringing a dead baby home to "meet" the family is not a rational nor sane decision.Think you would find vast majority of people would agree it was not something one should do.

Santorum like most religious people believes babies are miracles of god or some crap, they are not.Having a child is a wonderful thing but it's not a miracle, its biology, pure and simple.You have sex, your lady gets pregnant, kid comes out 9 months later.Sure it's great thing but it's not some magical thing.Again, mental state of a guy running for President is our business, his behavior and beliefs show someone who is

Hmm tribes, so not rational to suggest something crazy like sending the baby to a funeral home and not taking it home for a play date?

There is nothing irrational and nothing crazy about it. If there was something irrational and crazy then it would be equally irrational and crazy when people to go visit to a corpse at a funeral home.

I know you won't get it, for a measure .....all the other students are wrong, all your teachers are wrong, all the textbooks are wrong, that grieving family is wrong...it never enters what passes for your mind that it is you that is wrong which means it is you who is irrational, or more accurately as the title of your topic says bat**** crazy.

Far cry from bringing a stillborn child home.

There is no difference whatsoever

Think you would find vast majority of people would agree it was not something one should do.

What utter crap

@Steve

I'm just aware that my opinion is only my opinion, and what I find distasteful someone else might actually find comforting.

That is the point, I have seen many dozens of families go through the same situation and seen the many dozens of very different ways they approached it, each one of them was right and only a pillock would try and claim they were actually wrong.

[1480]

We used to wake people in their own homes, not so long ago.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I think this should've been a poll, then Bubbles would see just how much in the minority he actually is.

It's not news, it's not our business, it doesn't mean Sanotorum is a nutjob (he may be but this has absolutely nothing to do with it!), it's not out of the ordinary.

I know a few people that have suffered this and they still add the childs names when listing the family (cards/presents).

Some parents decide to take their baby out of the hospital for a short while. They may take their baby home or to a place that has special meaning to them. There is no legal reason why you should not do this (except in rare cases when a coroner has ordered a post mortem).

Source: The Stillbirth and Neonatal Death charity (SANDS)

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The truth is fine. Your opinion is fine. Your confusing one for the other is not.

Nice one-liner. Stored in memory for eternity.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nice one-liner. Stored in memory for eternity.

Thanks. Aren't the best ones always by accident? I didn't see it coming.

[Sailor Steve]

Re-reading this I noticed a couple of things that struck me, in a positive way.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There is nothing irrational and nothing crazy about it. If there was something irrational and crazy then it would be equally irrational and crazy when people to go visit to a corpse at a funeral home.

Excellent point.

There is no difference whatsoever

Again, something I wondered about but wasn't sure of my own feelings on the subject. Reading it out loud, I have to agree.

@Steve

That is the point, I have seen many dozens of families go through the same situation and seen the many dozens of very different ways they approached it, each one of them was right and only a pillock would try and claim they were actually wrong.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

I think this should've been a poll, then Bubbles would see just how much in the minority he actually is.

But he's not interested in anyone else's opinions. He's right, he has the truth, and you need to learn this.

(he may be but this has absolutely nothing to do with it!)

Excellent!