David Cameron: UK will get up to strength in 2012

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by magicstix

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach or become politicians.

I don't think that expression refers to "teachers" of academics or scholarly instruction. Those teachers are actually doing something.

[August]

Originally Posted by troopie

Was it Socrates who said: any men smart enough to be real leaders would be smart enough to know not to?

Maybe, maybe not, but John Adams definitely said what I quote in my signature:

"Public business must always be done by somebody.
It will be done by somebody or other.
If wise men decline, others will not; if honest men refuse it, others will not."
- John Adams

That means if the "smart" men that Socrates is talking about it don't step up then some idiot will take their place.

[JU_88]

2012 will be a like a turd with cherry on top for Britain

The Turd..
Euro Crisis will hurt us regardless of what the Con-Dems do or dont do.
Likley to slip into recession.
Unemployement rising.
Austerity messures / Cuts
Cost of living & travel continues to rise
Possible further social unrest during Summer (lets hope not though)

The Cherry...
2012 olymics
Jubilee.

[jumpy]

Bit more of a crab-apple than a cherry tbh.
Looks like it might hold the promise of granny smiths in miniature, but the reality is very, very sour.

[Jimbuna]

The rich will do a little worse than before and the poor will pay the price in real terms.

[jumpy]

^^

I can sort of back that up with experience of a 'work from home telemarketing' job I've been engaged with ... got info through jobcentre before holidays, attended online training seminar today, plus tried some live calling... urgh. The catch? Advertised as no cold calling/selling, merely conduction surveys, the reality, you are cold calling and selling by proxy via the survey and on behalf of 'national money savers'. The real catch is that although you are logged into their remote dialer for X number of hours a day with an advertised rate of £6.10ph, you are actually only getting paid for the time your login is actually dialling or conducting surveys.
9/10 people put the phone down and as each call starts a new survey, you need to spend time closing the survey otherwise you don't get logged as making the survey.
What this means: you might well be connected for what seems to be a 'flat rate' wage, but you are only paid when surveying or dialling... which is something quite different in terms of hours worked than the stated 6.5 hrs a day monday to friday.

I'm sick and tired of applying for jobs through the jobcentre that declare 'hourly rate' yet time and again prove to be nothing of the sort.

Sorry, a bit OT, but somebody is making money somewhere just ain't me.
Better luck with a CAD job interview next monday eh?

[Jimbuna]

Best wishes for a successful outcome

[jumpy]

Ta, jim

[STEED]

Originally Posted by jumpy

^^

I can sort of back that up with experience of a 'work from home telemarketing' job I've been engaged with ... got info through jobcentre before holidays, attended online training seminar today, plus tried some live calling... urgh. The catch? Advertised as no cold calling/selling, merely conduction surveys, the reality, you are cold calling and selling by proxy via the survey and on behalf of 'national money savers'. The real catch is that although you are logged into their remote dialer for X number of hours a day with an advertised rate of £6.10ph, you are actually only getting paid for the time your login is actually dialling or conducting surveys.
9/10 people put the phone down and as each call starts a new survey, you need to spend time closing the survey otherwise you don't get logged as making the survey.
What this means: you might well be connected for what seems to be a 'flat rate' wage, but you are only paid when surveying or dialling... which is something quite different in terms of hours worked than the stated 6.5 hrs a day monday to friday.

I'm sick and tired of applying for jobs through the jobcentre that declare 'hourly rate' yet time and again prove to be nothing of the sort.

Sorry, a bit OT, but somebody is making money somewhere just ain't me.
Better luck with a CAD job interview next monday eh?

Don't you dare ring me, I'm registered with the TPS and still I get these calls, granted well down on before I join the TPS. Every so often they do go up and I complain like stink to the TPS then the calls fall off still the next time.

Hey Jumpy jobs are up 20% to average of 420,000 a week but now here are some facts...

Who ever removes JC's jobs after they have been filled is not doing that properly as they remain on the job point machines for days or weeks!

Agency's lie to you about having work for you, they want your CV to add to there Database so they can pick up a fat cheque from the EU.

There are more part time work than full time and most of them under 20 hours per week.

There are hardly any jobs without the wording Temporary for a month up to six months.


I have done my Home Work has the (any) Government? No, all they see is the figures not the facts that go with them.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jumpy

I'm sick and tired of applying for jobs through the jobcentre that declare 'hourly rate' yet time and again prove to be nothing of the sort.

You need to read The Fine Print. The Fine Print is hidden away in a file cabinet somewhere in France, but it's still you're fault for not reading it. The Fine Print says that the stated wage is what you may earn after twenty years on the job, if you're very very lucky and kiss all the right fantails.

Jokes aside, I'm sorry to hear that they pull the old "bait and switch" on you. Here in the 'States, or at least in my part of it, we have a law and a means for reporting employers who lie about how much they will pay you from the start.

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by STEED

Don't you dare ring me, I'm registered with the TPS and still I get these calls, granted well down on before I join the TPS. Every so often they do go up and I complain like stink to the TPS then the calls fall off still the next time.

Hey Jumpy jobs are up 20% to average of 420,000 a week but now here are some facts...

Who ever removes JC's jobs after they have been filled is not doing that properly as they remain on the job point machines for days or weeks!

Agency's lie to you about having work for you, they want your CV to add to there Database so they can pick up a fat cheque from the EU.

There are more part time work than full time and most of them under 20 hours per week.

There are hardly any jobs without the wording Temporary for a month up to six months.


I have done my Home Work has the (any) Government? No, all they see is the figures not the facts that go with them.

haha I'll make it my mission to call you STEED....
Inside scoop on this job: the people on the database you are calling are referred to as 'prospects' in all of the literature from the company. We were also given lengthy information on the subject of 'objection handling', which is basically how to keep the mark, sorry, I mean prospect on the line; one of the issues is the TPS thing
- to counter -
"Why the hell are you people phoning me up?! Im on TPS, you shouldn't have my details"
We are told to say that either (like opting out of the electoral roll, it removes your info this year, but not for the years before you opted out, so it depends on the age of the database that's used to store the name & number etc) you opted in, or out of 'allowing partnered companies to send/contact you for market research purposes' when you bought something online or at a highstreet store.
Catchy eh?

Tbh, I thought doing this would be preferable to the community action plan that the dole have in mind for us - then again, I have plans for that too, volunteering to teach the computer illiterate computer literacy, via their own organisation.... I'd like to see their answer to that; deny me and they're shutting the door to me volunteering to help out in the community, which is what the core of the CAP program is all about. If they refuse, I'll have to assume that somebody, somewhere is making money out of the scheme with a subsidy or whatever. Thus I hope to reveal the fallacy of their operation from within.
Or, on the bright side, if I have to 'work' for my dole instead of getting a real job, at least I might be able to help somebody less savvy about computers than myself, seeing as I have used, built, fixed, installed and operated computers and many, many different types of software for over 15 years, both at home and in a work environment of professional refrigeration and engineering departments.

But this is the DSS we are taking about. So I fully expect to be totally unsurprised when I get ****** over, again.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You need to read The Fine Print. The Fine Print is hidden away in a file cabinet somewhere in France, but it's still you're fault for not reading it. The Fine Print says that the stated wage is what you may earn after twenty years on the job, if you're very very lucky and kiss all the right fantails.

Jokes aside, I'm sorry to hear that they pull the old "bait and switch" on you. Here in the 'States, or at least in my part of it, we have a law and a means for reporting employers who lie about how much they will pay you from the start.

Yer, all that damn fine print... on these online work from home telemarketing things you don't get to find much of this out until you actually start the training, which lasts 15 hours, which at the rate things were going yesterday, might take me the next two or three weeks to achieve in the real world. But hey! Somebody has to be making money, right?

Typically, the jobcentre here does not 'vet' the adverts it holds on its database. There was a program on R4 late last year about scammers using the governments own .gov website for the jobcentre to host adverts to scam people looking for a job.
Currently there is no research done into adverts prospective employers post on the web site, apart from a telephone call to check the name and address of the employer, the dole do NOTHING further to check the advert is a legitimate position, other than declaring the following:

Additional information

• If you are looking for work, Tax Credits could top up your earnings
• This vacancy meets the requirements of the National Minimum Wage Act
• If you are unable to apply for the job advertised by the method displayed, due to a health condition or disability, please contact Jobcentre Plus for further assistance.

I've been caught out by false adverts at the jobcentre before and when I've brought it to the attention of staff, they just look at you and say, oh, well, er, have you tried looking for another job? I guess these guys are living proof that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys working for you.

The whole thing is a bloody shambles operated by top class bunglers of a quality and calibre of most rarified aspect, as I'm sure I've iterated before. At length.

meh, 2012, more of the same. At least Joni is keeping me sane with her relaxing vibes on Hejira.

I must say, in relation to this CAD interview I have on monday morning, when I phoned the number on the advert I was expecting another agency. Well, slap my arse with a wet kipper, it was the actual company and the md who I got to speak to - small family business and all, looking for a fulltime employee to work with the electrical engineer designing controls panels for heating and ventilation systems, which is pretty close to the refrigeration work I've done before, and whilst I'm not exactly an expert on electrical symbols and such like, I'm a quick study and am proficient at using autoCAD. And unlike the last draughtsman who worked for them, I don't have any dependants or turbulent relationship with a spouse or partner to interfere with work..... (just as well he didn't know me a couple of years back when I was with my ex and her madness )
Still, I'll not count my chickens, especially not with this stinking head cold I have just come down with yesterday.