Persuade me, please

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by washishu

Seems to me that the whole SH4 interface is not well designed and is extremely fussy and visually complex. Especially the clumsy orders buttons, the text box (for the orders etc.) which is in the way no matter where you put it, and that crew management screen - whoever designed that should be hung by the neck until dead.

I'm not sure I should be answering this, since you want a friend of mine hung by the neck until dead.

Now that that's out of the way, I've found no problems with the SH4 interface other than that no one has duplicated the 'Simfeeling 6-Dials' mod for SH3, which removes everything from the screen and makes them all slide-outs. It took me about a week to get used to the text box, and for the last five years I've hardly noticed it.

The Crew Management screen? I think it's better than SH3's. I know where my crew are and what they're doing at all times. I'm not to happy about having to move the gun crew into position myself, but I live with it. And the Watch Officer moves to the bridge without me taking him by the hand.

I appreciate that it takes time to become accustomed to any new interface but the whole thing seems so poorly designed that I'm bound to wonder if it's worth the effort.

That's a fair opinion, but I disagree. I think SH4 is a definite improvement over SH3, and only wish it had gotten the same attention from the modders.

It's not unreasonable (is it?) to expect that version four of any software would be an improvement upon previous versions and although this will be, to some degree, a matter of opinion, SH4 seems to have more in common with SH1 or 2 than it does with SH3. And I don't mean the change back to the Pacific; for example the inability to control precisely the raising of the periscope - this was a feature lacking in the early versions when processors etc. were not as powerful and in this and other aspects, we seem to have taken a step backward here. What am I missing?

The Insert-Delete-Page Up-Page Down buttons don't work for you? They seem okay to me.

Q: is there a decent manual available for SH4?

No. The supermods all come with pretty good manuals, though.

The standard pdf "manual" is little short of an insult to the intelligence.

As was SH3's. No one seems to be interested in writing a decent manual anymore.

Q: do these mods improve any of the (seems to me many) design faults of SH4 or are they just what might be called eye candy?

TMO is not only focused on AI and gameplay improvements, that is its main focus. Graphics improvements are basically concerned with fixing graphics problems.

FOTRS is based on TMO but takes it in a different direction. Someone with experience with that mod will have to give a full explanation.

RFB (Real Fleet Boat) is another great supermod, and again its focus is on fixing the AI and handling problems first, and graphics second.

To all you dedicated SH4 Wolves of the Pacific; come on, persuade me; I'd like to spend some time in warm Pacific waters or should I just go back to the cold North Atlantic?

As to that, considering the way you started your attack, all I can say is that I don't know you, I'm not sure I care to, and I couldn't care less whether you are persuaded or not. My assessment was as honest as I could make it, but I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, because I thought your approach was rude, arrogant and dismissive.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

...I couldn't care less whether you are persuaded or not...

Stole my thunder.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

Stole my thunder.

Hell, I wouldn't have even cracked the seal on this thread if other members I respect on the forum hadn't of. The 'Persuade me' title of the thread alone makes me envision my neighbor's step-son that never received corporal persuasion a day in his life. Steve gave this more patience and effort than I woulda.

Now watch the thread author step up to the plate and persuade me to change my opinion. (Ok, so maybe my internal pessimist and optimist come out all bi-polarish at times.)

[CCIP]

I think the interface is also a very much a matter of personal preference. Personally, I prefer the SH4 interface to standard SH3 and SH2, and prefer it by miles to SH5's. I find it a lot easier to get to the information I need from the screen, and most orders should be given via key shortcuts anyway. Some of the modded SH3 and SH5 interfaces are better, but out of the box... I honestly don't see why it compares so unfavourably.

There's lots of good information you can find on the forum. If you're familiar with SH3, I don't think you really need a manual for basic functions of the game, and there's lots of great resources here if you want to find out more about the subs themselves.

As with any new game, I think one thing that you're experiencing is the switchover from your 'comfort zone' - if you enjoyed SH3 so much, you probably developed a lot of habits unique to that game and interface, and any changes from them feel weird and unnatural. My advice is give it time and let it grow on you. SH4 is still honestly my favourite of the series, and though it's far from perfect and not as extensively modded as SH3, you can get a really good experience of it. The latest version of TMO is a great mod package that isn't really missing much of anything, anyway, except for some of the extra shine and polish (like extravagant numbers of new units and graphics) that the big SH3 mods offer. Same could be said for OM, the mod to go to if you want a full-on U-boat experience (for all theaters). But the most important gameplay/simulation elements that actually matter make for a stable, well-performing, good-looking game - on those 3 things alone it's miles above any SH3 version.