Eurozone deal reached without UK - Page 6

Skybird · 12-12-11, 04:50 PM

And the insiders and the "markets" today: their reaction to the summit was - as was to be expected, wasn'T it - cool, to put it mildly. Rating Agencies fire more warnings, Moodys wanmts to follow S&P example. The euphoria over the EU declaration of future intentions for next Spring (that alone is a joke!) already has dissappeared.

Jimbuna · 12-12-11, 05:06 PM

Never fear..Croatia will sort it all out with her financial contribution

At this rate I'm expecting the referendum issue to be a pivotal part of each partys pre-election campaign next time around.....if we are still in the EU that is.

Skybird · 12-13-11, 06:55 PM

Top lawyers from the EU and independent ones as well find serious flaws in the summit'S conclusion on a fiscal union.

The way it should be implemented in order to avoid a changing of the Lisbon treaty to avoid referendums and needing to ask the people in some countries (these silly homewgrown terrorists) is a separate treaty, but this fact is legally vioolating the priority set for the various treaties they then would have. Complex issue, conclusion is: any sanctions imposed under the new treaty - would be illegal.

The general secretary Barosso I. of the central committee of the SEU meanwhile said that the automatic introduction of sanctions for deficit violators for legal reasons would only become valid if the sanctions become decided by majority of the heads of states. This results from the hierarchy of certain EU treaties that put the authority of this decision being made before sanctions over the demanded automatism of a sub-ordinate treaty they want to get in Spring. Which means the automatism is not any automatic at all. - Confirms just what I said about one hawk not picking the eye of the other, two or three days ago.

Today it gets reported that the supervisors installed to monitor the Greeks, say that Greece already is breaking its promises to the ECB and ICF again, and will not only not meet its obligations, but even increase its deficit - and quite greatly.

Markets and stock indices - well, you have watched the news today, haven't you.

I laughed on the day the summit ended. And I laugh even louder today. Black humour is the only way to stay alive when watching this display of incompetence, unscrupulousness, fraud and infantility.

A mouse that roared. Have you heared it? No...? Hm. Well, doesn't matter. Move on.

Herr-Berbunch · 12-13-11, 07:16 PM

Heard some foreign politician on the radio today say that Cameron did what he thought was best for Britain's interests, and that Merkel and Sarkozy are also only looking out for their countries interests - they couldn't give a toss about the others, but if one goes it'll drag them down too.

Jimbuna · 12-14-11, 11:56 AM

Catfish · 12-14-11, 02:20 PM

^

Jimbuna · 12-14-11, 06:50 PM

STEED · 12-16-11, 10:42 AM

I see there are cracks now, wonder why?

Maybe the full details were not there and Germany along with France wanted to steam roll over the rest of Europe..."You will obey".

Clear off.

Jimbuna · 12-16-11, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

I see there are cracks now, wonder why?

Maybe the full details were not there and Germany along with France wanted to steam roll over the rest of Europe..."You will obey".

Clear off.

Nothing would suprise me but only time will tell.

Skybird · 12-17-11, 03:42 PM

20-billion Reichsmark note.

A little history lesson in German language: a warning on why it shall not be thought that the crisis today must be solved by printing money, money and then printing more money. In Germany, we have been there - we never shall want to get there again - AT NO COST.

A brief history of the German hyperinflation.

At the end of 1923, the living costs in Germany were 77 billion times as high than they had been immediately after the war 1918.

Oberon · 12-17-11, 04:19 PM

Aaah, the good old Weimer Republic:

To be fair though, the fact that Germany crashed before the Great Depression meant that things couldn't get much worse when '29 hit. In fact, IIRC Germany was one of the least effected of the Western Nations because the DM couldn't sink much lower. Of course that was little consolation for Germany, and of course we all know how it eventually turned out.
Can't say I support the whole 'Merkel = Hitler' propaganda, but there is certainly a risk of cunning people using the dire economic circumstances to politically profit and put forward an agenda that in Boom times would be laughed out of legislation.

Of course, since I have incurred Godwins law, my whole post is now irrelevant.

Skybird · 12-17-11, 05:06 PM

Well, the little history lesosn above holds an uncomfortable parallel in the last paragraph.

Quote:

Erst eine neue Währung beendete Ende 1923 die Groteske. Die Rentenmark war angeblich durch Grund und Boden gedeckt – eine Lüge, die aber niemand hinterfragte. Der Währungsschnitt war die größte Umverteilung von Vermögen in der deutschen Geschichte: Die Mittelschicht verlor ihr Erspartes, und Rentner wurden mittellos. Profitiert hatten dagegen alle, die auf Pump Häuser, Äcker oder Unternehmen gekauft hatten.

Translation:

Not before 1923, a new currency ended the grotesque. The "Rentenmark" was claimed to be be covered in material value of property in land and housing - a lie that just did not get questioned by anybody. The currency cut was the biggest redistributuon of wealth in German history. The middle class lost all its savings, and pensioneers became penniless. Profiting did all those who had bought houses, fields and companies on tic.

The last two sentence should make one think about today's actors' real motives.

Jimbuna · 12-18-11, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aaah, the good old Weimer Republic:

To be fair though, the fact that Germany crashed before the Great Depression meant that things couldn't get much worse when '29 hit. In fact, IIRC Germany was one of the least effected of the Western Nations because the DM couldn't sink much lower. Of course that was little consolation for Germany, and of course we all know how it eventually turned out.
Can't say I support the whole 'Merkel = Hitler' propaganda, but there is certainly a risk of cunning people using the dire economic circumstances to politically profit and put forward an agenda that in Boom times would be laughed out of legislation.

Of course, since I have incurred Godwins law, my whole post is now irrelevant.

That barrel load would have just about been enough for a loaf of bread

Oberon · 12-18-11, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

That barrel load would have just about been enough for a loaf of bread

If you were lucky!

Skybird · 12-18-11, 09:02 AM

The German essay I linked, starts with telling a Kafka-esque story of a family that sells it's house and property and travels to Hamburg to leave for America to escape the German inflation. Arriving at the harbour in Hamburg, the prices already again have exploded and the money they got for selling their land does not pay for the ship travel anymore.

But it also is not enough anymore to just return to their former home town again.

12-12-11, 04:50 PM	#76
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	And the insiders and the "markets" today: their reaction to the summit was - as was to be expected, wasn'T it - cool, to put it mildly. Rating Agencies fire more warnings, Moodys wanmts to follow S&P example. The euphoria over the EU declaration of future intentions for next Spring (that alone is a joke!) already has dissappeared. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-12-11, 05:06 PM	#77
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Never fear..Croatia will sort it all out with her financial contribution At this rate I'm expecting the referendum issue to be a pivotal part of each partys pre-election campaign next time around.....if we are still in the EU that is. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-13-11, 06:55 PM	#78
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Top lawyers from the EU and independent ones as well find serious flaws in the summit'S conclusion on a fiscal union. The way it should be implemented in order to avoid a changing of the Lisbon treaty to avoid referendums and needing to ask the people in some countries (these silly homewgrown terrorists) is a separate treaty, but this fact is legally vioolating the priority set for the various treaties they then would have. Complex issue, conclusion is: any sanctions imposed under the new treaty - would be illegal. The general secretary Barosso I. of the central committee of the SEU meanwhile said that the automatic introduction of sanctions for deficit violators for legal reasons would only become valid if the sanctions become decided by majority of the heads of states. This results from the hierarchy of certain EU treaties that put the authority of this decision being made before sanctions over the demanded automatism of a sub-ordinate treaty they want to get in Spring. Which means the automatism is not any automatic at all. - Confirms just what I said about one hawk not picking the eye of the other, two or three days ago. Today it gets reported that the supervisors installed to monitor the Greeks, say that Greece already is breaking its promises to the ECB and ICF again, and will not only not meet its obligations, but even increase its deficit - and quite greatly. Markets and stock indices - well, you have watched the news today, haven't you. I laughed on the day the summit ended. And I laugh even louder today. Black humour is the only way to stay alive when watching this display of incompetence, unscrupulousness, fraud and infantility. A mouse that roared. Have you heared it? No...? Hm. Well, doesn't matter. Move on. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-13-11, 07:16 PM	#79
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Heard some foreign politician on the radio today say that Cameron did what he thought was best for Britain's interests, and that Merkel and Sarkozy are also only looking out for their countries interests - they couldn't give a toss about the others, but if one goes it'll drag them down too. __________________

12-14-11, 11:56 AM	#80
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-14-11, 02:20 PM	#81
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,799 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^

12-14-11, 06:50 PM	#82
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-16-11, 10:42 AM	#83
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I see there are cracks now, wonder why? Maybe the full details were not there and Germany along with France wanted to steam roll over the rest of Europe..."You will obey". Clear off. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

12-17-11, 03:42 PM	#85
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	20-billion Reichsmark note. A little history lesson in German language: a warning on why it shall not be thought that the crisis today must be solved by printing money, money and then printing more money. In Germany, we have been there - we never shall want to get there again - AT NO COST. A brief history of the German hyperinflation. At the end of 1923, the living costs in Germany were 77 billion times as high than they had been immediately after the war 1918. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-17-11, 04:19 PM	#86
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Aaah, the good old Weimer Republic: To be fair though, the fact that Germany crashed before the Great Depression meant that things couldn't get much worse when '29 hit. In fact, IIRC Germany was one of the least effected of the Western Nations because the DM couldn't sink much lower. Of course that was little consolation for Germany, and of course we all know how it eventually turned out. Can't say I support the whole 'Merkel = Hitler' propaganda, but there is certainly a risk of cunning people using the dire economic circumstances to politically profit and put forward an agenda that in Boom times would be laughed out of legislation. Of course, since I have incurred Godwins law, my whole post is now irrelevant.

12-18-11, 09:02 AM	#90
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The German essay I linked, starts with telling a Kafka-esque story of a family that sells it's house and property and travels to Hamburg to leave for America to escape the German inflation. Arriving at the harbour in Hamburg, the prices already again have exploded and the money they got for selling their land does not pay for the ship travel anymore. But it also is not enough anymore to just return to their former home town again. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.