Woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by 1480

Treason is still on the books for execution in the US. The only crime on the books that does not need felony murder to be eligible.

I believe it is 743 per 100,000 is the incarceration rate here in the US. 178 per 100,000 in Saudi Arabia.

US population 323 million and change. 2.3 million inmates. .001% executed

S A population 27 million and change. 48,060 inmates. 16% executed

I was never great with #'s so if I am off please correct.

Going from you figures, I get 0.178%. I looked at those figures and did my own sums yesterday before posting, but didn't post my results - off the top of my head (cba to do it all again) and they were both in the 0.something but I thought it was even less than .001% for US.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Going from you figures, I get 0.178%. I looked at those figures and did my own sums yesterday before posting, but didn't post my results - off the top of my head (cba to do it all again) and they were both in the 0.something but I thought it was even less than .001% for US.

Ok, was never great with decimals, but even with your math, there is a huge discrepancy.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by 1480

Ok, was never great with decimals, but even with your math, there is a huge discrepancy.

But executions are still executions, whatever the 'law' broken in the first place. My point is that the US, as a whole, cannot dictate to or look down on, or tut disapprovingly at Saudi if the US does the same for a broken law.

And your witches don't go through the judicial system - they have vigilante mobs burning down their houses and baying for blood. I've seen no end of films showing such actions, so it must be true.


I'll just point out that I'm quite right-wing in my philosophy, and I'm all for death penalties under the right circumstances - I'm just pointing out the hypocracy.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

But executions are still executions, whatever the 'law' broken in the first place. My point is that the US, as a whole, cannot dictate to or look down on, or tut disapprovingly at Saudi if the US does the same for a broken law.

And your witches don't go through the judicial system - they have vigilante mobs burning down their houses and baying for blood. I've seen no end of films showing such actions, so it must be true.


I'll just point out that I'm quite right-wing in my philosophy, and I'm all for death penalties under the right circumstances - I'm just pointing out the hypocracy.

i do not think it to be hypocritical.

While there are strong arguments against any death penalty, it is not the case that all death penalties are thereby equal and it is just your stupidity to break the law.

There is a huge difference between having the death penalty for murder and having the death penalty for witchcraft or blasphemy.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

My point is that the US, as a whole, cannot dictate to or look down on, or tut disapprovingly at Saudi if the US does the same for a broken law.

And my point was that there is a very large difference between executing someone for violently killing several innocent people and executing someone for speaking their mind, or even for the trumped up charge of 'witchcraft'.

Not that I'm for Capital Punishment, or against it. I see the arguments for both sides and waffle back and forth on the issue.

[tater]

In the US, people get executed for some murders. A relatively small subset of murders, in fact. This is after trials, appeals, etc, ad nauseum.

In Saudi you are comparing the US executions for (particularly heinous) murder to execution for WITCHCRAFT. This is not even "thought crime," as there is no such thing as witchcraft. They are executing people for what is by definition nothing.

We in the US have every right to look down on them for this. In the last few years the number of executions in the US has been in the mid 40s. Call it 50 for slop.

There are over 18,000 homicides per year in the US.

Call it 15,000 killers for slop (everything I do here is increasing the US murder rates). So we bump off 50/15,000 = 0.33% of all murderers.

SA seems to execute a similar number of people, but I cannot get get stats on the number of people convicted of capital crimes (and not sure if everything gets counted), but they seem to execute 0.1% of inmates incarcerated for all crimes put together (the US stat for this is 0.000002% of all inmates (add a couple zeros to get the % of the pop at large magnitude)).

In short, the rate the US executes killers in in the same order of magnitude that SA executes people for no reason whatsoever.

This is not even "thought crime," as there is no such thing as witchcraft.

Can you remind me which nation had a political candidate not long ago making a TV appearance to reassure voters she was not really a witch?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Can you remind me which nation had a political candidate not long ago making a TV appearance to reassure voters she was not really a witch?

Does not matter...there still is nothing to substantiate witch craft exists. Delusions of gradeur, wizards, warlocks only exist within the mind, in film and books. Vampires do not exist either but people like to believe they do. Some practice being a vampire. I'm not sure what practicing does for them. Maybe I will go see a viewing of Twilight.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by tater

In the US, people get executed for some murders. A relatively small subset of murders, in fact. This is after trials, appeals, etc, ad nauseum.

In Saudi you are comparing the US executions for (particularly heinous) murder to execution for WITCHCRAFT. This is not even "thought crime," as there is no such thing as witchcraft. They are executing people for what is by definition nothing.

We in the US have every right to look down on them for this. In the last few years the number of executions in the US has been in the mid 40s. Call it 50 for slop.

There are over 18,000 homicides per year in the US.

Call it 15,000 killers for slop (everything I do here is increasing the US murder rates). So we bump off 50/15,000 = 0.33% of all murderers.

SA seems to execute a similar number of people, but I cannot get get stats on the number of people convicted of capital crimes (and not sure if everything gets counted), but they seem to execute 0.1% of inmates incarcerated for all crimes put together (the US stat for this is 0.000002% of all inmates (add a couple zeros to get the % of the pop at large magnitude)).

In short, the rate the US executes killers in in the same order of magnitude that SA executes people for no reason whatsoever.

the hairsplitting German in me can't help but to correct :

To make a fair comprehension you should only use the numbers from US states which have capital punishment; the murders that fall under the jurisdiction of said states. Then you also have to put the the murder rate into the calculations: 1/100000 for SA, 5/100000 for the US. Maybe only compare Texas and Saudi Arabis, as they both have a similar population size: this would be interesting.

Oh, and there are indeed some other offenses in the US other than murder, which can let you fry: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deat...s-other-murder

Personally, I know in which country I'd prefer to be on trial, better a dysfunctional justice system than a system where you can get convicted by "the testimony of two male witnesses" (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...n_Saudi_Arabia)


PS: good to see you again on here, tater , greetings from the Penguin who thinks capital punishment in every country is barbaric, though the reasons in some are nuttier than in others.

[tater]

I'm fine with getting rid of capital punishment as long as the murderer is deprived of all pleasures in life for his remaining life. Solitary. No TV, no books, just himself, and bare walls after appeals are done. before that, he can have books, etc., under the presumption he might possibly be innocent even though convicted. Once appeals are done (as speedily as possible, BTW), solitary. No parole, no getting out, except in a bag.

Do that and I'd be for abandoning the DP in civilian courts.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Penguin

the hairsplitting German in me can't help but to correct :

To make a fair comprehension you should only use the numbers from US states which have capital punishment; the murders that fall under the jurisdiction of said states. Then you also have to put the the murder rate into the calculations: 1/100000 for SA, 5/100000 for the US. Maybe only compare Texas and Saudi Arabis, as they both have a similar population size: this would be interesting.

Oh, and there are indeed some other offenses in the US other than murder, which can let you fry: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deat...s-other-murder

Personally, I know in which country I'd prefer to be on trial, better a dysfunctional justice system than a system where you can get convicted by "the testimony of two male witnesses" (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...n_Saudi_Arabia)


PS: good to see you again on here, tater , greetings from the Penguin who thinks capital punishment in every country is barbaric, though the reasons in some are nuttier than in others.

Yeah, I'd had forgotten about the repeat child sex offender laws. Castration would be a more fitting sentence for them, and not the chemical kind.

As for life in solitary confinement, Finney v. Hutto says :

confinement in punitive isolation for more than thirty days is cruel and unusual punishment and thus impermissible

As for the amount of homicides in the US has been continually dropping annually is the good news. The bad news is the clearance rate nationwide is down to the 60% range. Compare that to 84% in the late 60's.