Favorite battlecruiser

Sailor Steve · 12-13-11, 10:49 PM

You're absolutely right there. I think they were built because the contemporary German armored cruisers were so dangerous as surface raiders.

Conway's says that the Invincibles were first concieved to carry sixteen 9.2" guns rather than the eight 12" guns they ended up with.

CCIP · 12-13-11, 11:01 PM

Yeah, though one shouldn't underestimate Jacky Fisher's role in the concept of the battlecruiser either. He had a big bright idea and he wasn't gonna let it go - it was the ship he really wanted to build (Dreadnought was his compromise that, ironically, proved to be the right idea in the end - but not what he really wanted to built). The battlecruiser was his ship and he was gonna see it through, and his increasingly outrageous designs in later WWI only show that.

Not that cruiser killers didn't have their niche, of course. The idea kind of survived into WWII, but never saw much use in reality.

Then you could also argue that battleships as such were, in the end, also a failure. The predictions of Mahanian doctrine that they were built around never came true - the great decisive line battle never happened, while billions and billions were sunk into building the things by many nations, when the real masters of the sea turned out to be the humble airplane and submarine.

And yet of course you can't not love the designs (assuming you like fast, powerful, intimidating, deadly-looking things)

USS Drum · 12-13-11, 11:20 PM

The Lexington actually had a good purpose it wouldn't fight battleships, instead it would be a scout for the main fleet and then return and help the main fleet destroy the enemy.

CCIP · 12-13-11, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Drum

The Lexington actually had a good purpose it wouldn't fight battleships, instead it would be a scout for the main fleet and then return and help the main fleet destroy the enemy.

Well that is how the battlecruisers ended up getting used. Then they would meet the other side's battlecruisers doing the same thing. Then, well, Dogger Bank and Jutland happened, and the rest is history. And that was before Lexington even left the drawing board.

As scouts go, light cruisers were cheaper and in the end more effective. And both were not even close to a match to aircraft that, again, were already beginning to fill that role before Lexington even finished being designed.

USS Drum · 12-13-11, 11:27 PM

You should here what the British designed a cruiser with 2 18 inch gun but eggshell armor.

CCIP · 12-13-11, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Drum

You should here what the British designed a cruiser with 2 18 inch gun but eggshell armor.

Yup, that's one of Fisher's crazy schemes, the Furious, along with her smaller-gunned half-sisters Courageous and Glorious

Also known in history as the "Spurious", "Outrageous" and "Uproarious"

And, like the Lexington, successfully converted to aircraft carriers.

USS Drum · 12-13-11, 11:44 PM

At least the Germans made their battlecruisers have actual "armor".

12-13-11, 10:49 PM	#1
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	You're absolutely right there. I think they were built because the contemporary German armored cruisers were so dangerous as surface raiders. Conway's says that the Invincibles were first concieved to carry sixteen 9.2" guns rather than the eight 12" guns they ended up with. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-13-11, 11:01 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Yeah, though one shouldn't underestimate Jacky Fisher's role in the concept of the battlecruiser either. He had a big bright idea and he wasn't gonna let it go - it was the ship he really wanted to build (Dreadnought was his compromise that, ironically, proved to be the right idea in the end - but not what he really wanted to built). The battlecruiser was his ship and he was gonna see it through, and his increasingly outrageous designs in later WWI only show that. Not that cruiser killers didn't have their niche, of course. The idea kind of survived into WWII, but never saw much use in reality. Then you could also argue that battleships as such were, in the end, also a failure. The predictions of Mahanian doctrine that they were built around never came true - the great decisive line battle never happened, while billions and billions were sunk into building the things by many nations, when the real masters of the sea turned out to be the humble airplane and submarine. And yet of course you can't not love the designs (assuming you like fast, powerful, intimidating, deadly-looking things) __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

12-13-11, 11:20 PM	#3
USS Drum Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 977 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	The Lexington actually had a good purpose it wouldn't fight battleships, instead it would be a scout for the main fleet and then return and help the main fleet destroy the enemy.

12-13-11, 11:27 PM	#5
USS Drum Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 977 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	You should here what the British designed a cruiser with 2 18 inch gun but eggshell armor.

12-13-11, 11:44 PM	#7
USS Drum Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 977 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	At least the Germans made their battlecruisers have actual "armor".