Eurozone deal reached without UK

[Jimbuna]

There is a fundamental factor in the UK that IMHO overrides all else, regardless of whether it be political, fiscal or economic opinion and or speculation by these so called 'experts'.....

No political party in the UK has yet won a mandate to make the ultimate decision as to what the UK is going to eventually decide on the politically hot potato of the EU....and no party has the courage to make said decision without a referendum because that would be party political suicide for at least the next generation.

The only true way forward is for each party to include in their next pre-election manifesto what their clear position is and give a definitive timescale on said committment.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The only true way forward is for each party to include in their next pre-election manifesto what their clear position is and give a definitive timescale on said committment.

Are yes what we are not going to do but we will say what it takes to get elected.







Up the revolution, smash the corrupt state.

[soopaman2]

Greece and Spain are closest to her hairy armpits.

[Skybird]

And another critic who is angry that those Germans do not will to just sit and pay for the debts of all others to give the market another 3-day rally before it gets bored again!

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And another critic who is angry that those Germans do not will to just sit and pay for the debts of all others to give the market another 3-day rally before it gets bored again!

Right your on Sky, which one?

FTSE-100
Dow Jones
CAC
DAX
NDJ

What the heck...check them all.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And another critic who is angry that those Germans do not will to just sit and pay for the debts of all others to give the market another 3-day rally before it gets bored again!

Let us be frank with everyone on here Sky....the Germans (or should I say Merkel) have took it upon themselves to be the panacea of all the EU ills, and for the strength of me I don't know why because I suspect the German people/taxpayers had very little say in the matter.

Mr Sarkozy has quickly jumped on the bandwagon because IMHO he has sensed Merkel may eventually be overeaching herself and that of the German people, at little or no expense to that of his own.

The sooner one or the other come to the realisation........meltdown.

I doubt many of the 'hangers on' countries are all that bothered because in the short term they gain, without little or no cost to themselves.

Croatia for the win (for example)....I'm sure they'll bail your country out when you run out of money to waste/burn LOL.

Sad really that it will probably eventually come to this.

[Hakahura]

If this all pans out to a logical solution, then I think the UK will eventually free itself of the EU.

Good for Britain, but good for the EU? I doubt it.
Whilst many would be glad to see the back of the UK, will they be glad to see the back of our financial contribution?

Britain is the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU budget.
Only Germany pays more in and gets less back.

Its very hard to find numbers that agree and obviously the EU itself does not make a big noise about it, but anyone who thinks the EU does not need the UK should investigate this.

If and when Britain leaves I will celebrate, but also feel sorry for the German people, as I think they will be forced by their government to pay alot more to prop up the EU.

UK referrendum now!

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Hakahura

If this all pans out to a logical solution, then I think the UK will eventually free itself of the EU.

Good for Britain, but good for the EU? I doubt it.
Whilst many would be glad to see the back of the UK, will they be glad to see the back of our financial contribution?

Britain is the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU budget.
Only Germany pays more in and gets less back.

Its very hard to find numbers that agree and obviously the EU itself does not make a big noise about it, but anyone who thinks the EU does not need the UK should investigate this.

If and when Britain leaves I will celebrate, but also feel sorry for the German people, as I think they will be forced by their government to pay alot more to prop up the EU.

UK referrendum now!

I think the UK will shuffle further away from the EU too over the next few years. The die is cast. Britain is no longer at the top table, so...

I think it is better for the EU too. Whether they can or cannot make something more solid and lasting out of this crisis is yet to be seen, but they are more able to put things into practice without Britain.

The absence of Britain's financial contribution would be felt. However this may be the last thing to go, and may never actually go, but remain in some form as the price of trading privileges and good will.

But even without that, supposing Britain does want to become a rentier state dominated by our much loved financial services industry. Then that same financial services industry will be doing international business. It won't be doing America's work since they have Wall Street. Mostly I expect it will still be doing business for Europe.

Imagining an optimistic future in which Europe survives, deals with the present problems, and integrates into a real federation of some sort, I think Britain can successfully piggyback between the security and financial opportunities provided by the US and an integrated Europe, and prosper based on the offer of freewheeling financial services that Europe may have legislated itself out of doing.

Britain as a hub of free-wheeling financial deals for the countries around it is a role sort of like a supersized Hong Kong of the 80s.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that by leaving the EU Britain is seeking to preserve her democracy.

The reason for leaving the EU is to preserve the financial sector (according to Cameron, anyway), and the financial sector which has recently demonstrated its superiority over the rest of Britain's body-politic, will accordingly continue to increase its influence over British politics.

Looking at the big picture I think it could work, and if you are in the financial sector, the prospect must be exciting. London would be a very thrilling place. If you are not in the financial sector, you might find life becoming more depressing.

just my little vision of the future...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Let us be frank with everyone on here Sky....the Germans (or should I say Merkel) have took it upon themselves to be the panacea of all the EU ills, and for the strength of me I don't know why because I suspect the German people/taxpayers had very little say in the matter.

Indeed - last representative poll by Emnid (the major poll-institute here) that I read maybe 3 weeks ago on the matter, said that three of four Germans are against this madness when being asked for the role Germany plays in saving the Euro. A majority of the Germans did not want it from all beginning on!

I explained earlier why the German "elite" (hahaha) of artists, feuilleton-writers and politicians made it their favourite hobby to let Germany dissolve in a "higher Europe". It is the bad conscience deriving from WWII. That'S why first the EU got declared an issue of peace and war, and when the the Euro had arrived and came under pressure, they started the same claim about the Euro: abandon the Euro, and you will see a Europe turning to war. They now have the new variation of the slogan released: let the fiscal union collapse, and there will be wars in Europe.

If the EU does not get it's will, there will be war.

And if you see some of the reactions in Greece and Britain, the many pictures and posters with German politicians ridiculed as being depicted as a Hitler 2.0 and all that stuff about a Fourth Reich, you must admit that there is plenty of anti-German sentiment indeed, deriving from the war. Or take your own yellow press on the days before a meeting of the English and German soccer team. That is a media world in wartimes.

For Germans, it also holds another lesson. During the 70s and from then on, maybe Germany could be seen as the hotspot in Europe of "Anti-Americanism" - and I mean Anti-Americanism not as constructively meant, fact-oriented criticism (like I attacked the US and the Bush gang heavily over Iraq 03, nevertheless said again and again I do not see mysyelf as an Anti-Americanist), but as an ideologically misled, mostly leftist irrational hostility that amongst other features includes a strong envy for the power of the US that enables(/d) them to do as they want for quite often a time. By that, America did a lot of silly things, yes, but it also did a lot of good things and secured the safety of the Western world - even that of anti-American Germany and Europe. When now Germans will be paying the bills of the Euro and effectively safe the continent from loosing the Euro (maybe), we certainly should not expect that our neighbours will be thankful and pleased by that. Like America earned more hostility then sympathy at times, the same will happen to us, and others will become the greedier at our options the more we do for others. Anti-Germanism runs very strong in Europe, and the EU, and it was just invisible when the Germans did not use their immense power and sat put and just payed the bills one gave them. Now that Germany - from the perspective of the pro-Euro faction - has no other choice than to raise a higher profile and finally - after much German resistence and many opportunities it gave ground and more ground and the more - take the lead: the pack starts howling and fears the storming Nazi-Hun again.

We repeat the experience the Americans have made in the past decades, seen this way. There is just one difference. American mentality is different, and it became stronger by being faced with this pressure. German people, I mean the wide public opinion - do not dare to appear as strong and will always deny they are. For us and our self-pewrception, a strong German is an evil German. Never never again may Germans ever dare to be strong again.

Think you get my point, yes!?

[Oberon]