Pearl Harbor Day: 12-07-2011

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Sorry to laugh but that movie came up today and someone said (regarding D-Day) "oh that's coming up tomorrow!" Uh, no. Wrong anniversary.

On a somewhat related note, I was talking to one of my fellow kenpo students about it (the movie) a couple weeks back and he told me about some guy he used to work with. He and my friend had both recently seen the movie and were talking about it, and the other guy asked if it was a true story. My friend started to say, well, there was a thing with one family where the brothers were all killed, but it was a different situation, and the Private Ryan in the movie was a fictional character and his story was made up for the movie, etc. The other guy interrupted him and said, no, I mean that whole thing with the beaches and Normandy and the war in France and all that...



This guy was an adult with at least a high school edumacation and HE DID NOT KNOW THAT WORLD WAR II WAS A REAL THING.

So altho some of us don't need reminding, there are some people who need a whole lot more than that.

lol. my professor of international relations related an anecdote that during a discussion on the politics related to ww2, an american student had a sudden epiphany and asked "Since there was a world war 2, does this mean there was also a world war one?"

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And I feel just the opposite.


While I am a huge fan of Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, the actor who played Fuchida in Tora! Tora! Tora! wasn't six feet tall and actually looked like Fuchida. On the other hand the actor who played Admiral Kimmel looked a lot more like the real thing than Martin Balsam did.


That same complaint was made about Tora! Tora! Tora!. Some things just can't be helped.

I can't put up the comparable scene from Tora!, simply because there doesn't seem to be one on the internet anywhere. But trust me, you'll be amazed at how much the carrier launch scene was stolen and at how much better the original was, and still is.

Good point on Fuchida, I was mainly focusing on my favourite character of the film (well, him and Kimmel) and that was Yamamoto, played by Mako.
I must confess though I haven't seen Tora! Tora! Tora! in years, so can't recall the acting of So Yamamura, but given that an effort was made to avoid using big movie stars to retain the focus on the story and the events of the film rather than the actors, I must applaud that.

I did find the comparable scene from Tora! Tora! Tora! (or I think I did) with some random music from Sarah Brightman....aha, here it is:

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by August

My all time favorite is the Band of Brothers mini series. IMO it doesn't have an equal so far.

Same here.

[Oberon]

*split post because the text went funky on the last after the url

I do love the taiko drums of the music of Pearl Harbour. I guess I'll be able to make a better comparison when I get around to watching Tora! Tora! Tora!, I have informed the better half that I wanted it added to the Christmas DVD wishlist, so we shall see what Santa shall bring.


And Jim, you'll be in my thoughts too mate, has it been two years already?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I did find the comparable scene from Tora! Tora! Tora! (or I think I did) with some random music from Sarah Brightman....aha, here it is:

If it was the launching scene you meant then that may be as close as we're going to get online. The scene in the movie is much longer than that.

As for Band Of Brothers, I also agree. But today is Pearl Harbor day, and Tora! Tora! Tora! is without question the best movie on that subject.

Time to go watch.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by August

My all time favorite is the Band of Brothers mini series. IMO it doesn't have an equal so far.

The same folks made an offshoot, called "the Pacific" Same network aired it.

It came no where close to capturing the emotion. The acting was not as good, and the story just seemed secondbest if you know what I mean.

I will agree. Band of Brothers caught the essense of the downtime as well as the battles.

The episodes in the Ardoughn (sp) forest were some of the best war movie scenes you will find.

(I almost wept when the skies cleared and the allied planes flew overhead, I felt so bad for those men enduring that)

[Ducimus]

[Sailor Steve]

I love the interviews with the real men at the end of each episode, especially the last one where it is revealed who is who.

[August]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

The same folks made an offshoot, called "the Pacific" Same network aired it.

It came no where close to capturing the emotion. The acting was not as good, and the story just seemed secondbest if you know what I mean.

FWIW it's difficult enough to achieve perfection. Doing it twice in a row is much harder.

You do however get a lot more out of "The Pacific" if you've read Sledge and Lemke's books:

"With the Old breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa" - Sledge
"Helmet for my Pillow" - Lemke

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

The same folks made an offshoot, called "the Pacific" Same network aired it.

It came no where close to capturing the emotion. The acting was not as good, and the story just seemed secondbest if you know what I mean.

I disagree. I think The Pacific was quite good, because it really showed how people can change. Some of what goes on in a man's head when the world around him is utter crap. Hell. On that note, I also felt "A Thin Red Line" was one of the best war movies ever made. People expect action, guns blazing, explosions, etc. But few war movies explore what goes on inside a man who has to live through it. I'm not talking about change of opinions, or of relationships, but of his core character, even his morals.

[frau kaleun]

I have been watching The Pacific over the past month or so. I think I only have 2 episodes to go, and should get to those this weekend. I have to say that in some ways it's not living up to the expectations I had for a "companion piece" to Band of Brothers. While some of the acting is very good, I don't think the writing is as good or the storytelling is as compelling.

That doesn't mean the story itself is not just as worthwhile, only that I don't feel it's being handled in a way that works as well for me personally. Something is just... missing, maybe I can't put my finger on it. I just know that after the first 2-3 episodes of BoB, I was hooked and chomping at the bit to see the rest of it. I'll watch the rest of The Pacific, but I'm not in a big hurry to get there. Maybe I just don't feel as connected to any of the characters.

Part of it, I'm sure, is that I already had a personal connection to the ETO before I ever saw BoB (close relatives that served there). AFAIK that's not the case with the Pacific War... so some of it is just me. But I was really, really eager to love this one the same and I just... don't. They may be considered vital parts of the story by some but for me it all got sidetracked too much with following Basilone around back in the states and the romance/marriage angle there, plus the whole love story thing with Leckie in Australia a bit earlier on.

I guess the "payoff" on the former in terms of narrative came when Basilone opted to go back into combat and got killed. Of course it was sad and touching but something about the way it was all presented just seemed forced to me, like it was working too hard to make that point when it was unnecessary because the mere facts speak for themselves. Honestly I was more moved when Ack-Ack got killed and watching how the men reacted to that, plus he made an impression on me even though he wasn't really a major character.

Again, it's not a question of the stories themselves not being worthwhile, it's (IMO) a matter of how they're being told. In terms of the little picture, the experience of the individual soldiers being portrayed, it's mostly doing a decent job of what Duci talks about above. But in terms of the bigger picture, as an overall great piece of cinema, for me it's not on the same level as BoB.

OTOH so much of BoB now is a nostalgic thing, it's like watching the old Star Wars movies, sure some things about them are not as 100% Pure Gold like you thought they were when you were 12, but looking back you tend to forgive a lot because of the feeling you remember from when you saw them the first time. And everything that comes after, even if it legitimately sucks, sucks just that much harder because of that.

Not saying The Pacific sucks, not by any means, but I think for some of us the expectations were so high that there's almost no way it could live up to them. Which maybe makes it seem a little less good than it might otherwise.

[August]

I think The Pacific's main problem is that it tried to cover too much ground forcing them to use characters who did not interact with each other.

The nice thing about BoB is that even though in each episode they concentrated on a different character, the other characters were still in the story. It's like a group discussion. The person who is currently talking might change but the others are still around and involved with the plot.

In The Pacific however the characters were in different units in different battles and that would break the stories continuity every time they switched the storyline from one to another.

It would have been a much better story (imo) if they just followed Eugene Sledge and his platoon from Basic through the end of the war. Of course we'd miss the Guadalcanal and New Britain battles but then again in BoB the whole story (aside from the 1st episode) is only about the last year of the war and it is still a complete story.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by August

I think The Pacific's main problem is that it tried to cover too much ground forcing them to use characters who did not interact with each other.

The nice thing about BoB is that even though in each episode they concentrated on a different character, the other characters were still in the story. It's like a group discussion. The person who is currently talking might change but the others are still around and involved with the plot.

In The Pacific however the characters were in different units in different battles and that would break the stories continuity every time they switched the storyline from one to another.

Yeah, I agree, that is definitely one difference that is detracting from the series for me. There are too many different storylines going on that never (or very rarely) intersect with each other. I think you're right that it might have been better from a purely storytelling perspective to stick with one memoir or the other - and I suppose Sledge's would be the obvious choice since I think Leckie was out of action before the war ended.

[soopaman2]

The Pacific would have been better if it could have followed the same unit throughout.

Sure BoB jumped between companies, but most those fellas ran up Currahhee together. And we as viewers knew them when they were pukes.

Not that it diminishes from the actions of the brave Marines, just a film making critique.

Semper Fi.

[August]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Sure BoB jumped between companies

No it didn't. You must mean jumped between platoons in the same company (Easy Company)