Florida teen detained by TSA for design on her purse

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by 1480

Yes, overreaction, that being said: how about flying with another purse...just saying.

YO DAWG! We heard TSA didn't like your purse so we put it inside another purse, so you can still carry your purse while you carry a purse.

[1480]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

okay, I'll do it.

Damn bears fan!

(proceeds to throw bottle at Misha, but hits Steed instead, then quietly slips out of thread.)

Oh Pasha, shouldn't you be counting trees?

[1480]

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

YO DAWG! We heard TSA didn't like your purse so we put it inside another purse, so you can still carry your purse while you carry a purse.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

So give your papers to the ex con working behind the TSA desk and let him feel your families assorted privated parts. If you tape them moaning in pleasure then you are guilty of a crime.

Can I ask... What the hell is wrong with you?

Because of your childish penchant for deleting the person you're quoting, I had to go make sure it was me.

You should be better than that.
So straight back at ya..........
plonker, no deletion, its all in your mind
See that little thing between "insert image" and "wrap[CODE] tags"?
Are you having a bad day?

And you're wrong. Overreaction is overreaction, no matter who does it.

That does not address what was written. or what it was written about
But also that comes back and bites you at the bottom

No, because unlike your example she didn't actually do anything wrong.

How do you know?

As I said, it should have taken one minute to make sure that it was only a piece of fashion, and she would have been on her way

Possibly, but then further down the line you get more problems so that isn't a solution.

These people overreacted, pure and simple.

How do you know that it wasn't the underage pregnant girl who overreacted and bought this all on herself?
It happens frequently in airports everywhere, people get uppity for no real reason and make a big scene which causes them delay then they make a scene about being delayed then go on about how unfair it is which delays them even more.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by 1480

The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution, but does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain powers in the Constitution.[15] It is to that enumeration of powers that the courts have said we must look, in order to determine the extent of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment.[15]

United Public Workers v. Mitchell, 330 U.S. 75 (1947).

Laurence H. Tribe, American Constitutional Law 776 n. 14 (2nd ed. 1998).

"It is a common error, but an error nonetheless, to talk of 'ninth amendment rights.' The ninth amendment is not a source of rights as such; it is simply a rule about how to read the Constitution.

Gibson v. Matthews, 926 F.2d 532, 537 (6th Cir. 1991

"[T]he ninth amendment does not confer substantive rights in addition to those conferred by other portions of our governing law. The ninth amendment was added to the Bill of Rights to ensure that the maxim expressio unius est exclusio alterius would not be used at a later time to deny fundamental rights merely because they were not specifically enumerated in the Constitution."

So in my humble opinion, it is not a right.

And that is a prime example of the court specifically ignoring the man who wrote the Bill Of Rights. James Madison "The Father of the Constitution", didn't want a Bill Of Rights at all, for the express reason that he believed that if he listed them some would inevitably be left out, and some lawyer down the road would say "They didn't mention that one, so it must not count." He believed that the Congressional and Executive powers listed could and would not be usurped, hence the Federal Government could never incroach on any of our rights, and that ALL rights belonged to the people, and none to the Government. He eventually let himself be persuaded by Jefferson, and by the fact that pretty much everybody else refused to sign if he didn't guarantee that he would include one.

Why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

James Madison, Federalist #84

When he did give in, he did everything he could to prevent the government from intruding on unnamed rights.

The exceptions here or elsewhere in the constitution, made in favor of particular rights, shall not be so construed as to diminish the just importance of other rights retained by the people; or as to enlarge the powers delegated by the constitution; but either as actual limitations of such powers, or as inserted merely for greater caution.

James Madison, Draft submitted to Congress

It has been said, by way of objection to a bill of rights....that in the Federal Government they are unnecessary, because the powers are enumerated, and it follows, that all that are not granted by the constitution are retained; that the constitution is a bill of powers, the great residuum being the rights of the people; and, therefore, a bill of rights cannot be so necessary as if the residuum was thrown into the hands of the Government. I admit that these arguments are not entirely without foundation, but they are not as conclusive to the extent it has been proposed. It is true the powers of the general government are circumscribed; they are directed to particular objects; but even if government keeps within those limits, it has certain discretionary powers with respect to the means, which may admit of abuse.

James Madison, speech introducing the Bill Of Rights

My point is that it's true that the Government does indeed have the authority (granted by us - Government per se has no "rights" at all) to create an entity to protect its citizens. In this the NTA is no different than the police department - it's there for a reason. I also agree that the NTA and other Federal Agencies have the authority to prohibit the carrying of weapons, even fake or replica weapons, on an airliner. Where I disagree is that an purse with an embossed picture of a gun qualifies, especially when even a cursory look would show that it's obvious that her finger couldn't even fit inside the trigger guard.

Never liked that argument and it has no relevance to this particular incident. Rape is a crime of violence.

It was the first one that came to my head. But the point here isn't the crime, it's the implication that "She should have known better." My point is that she shouldn't have to know better.

None of the rights enumerated in the Constitution are absolute either. Too many examples of case law that prove that. I'll PM them to you if you would like.

You don't need to show me anything. As I often say, I read the Bill Of Rights as meaning one thing: I have the right to do anything I want, as long as I don't infringe anyone else's right to do exactly the same. Everything else springs from that concept.

And the reason why I mentioned it, was the three times I was searched after the initial screening.

In your country(which of course make it eminently relevant) I was searched outside the terminal, then again inside before the check in, then at check in, then again through to departures then once more before actual boarding....and that was before the ATSA was enacted and there was piles of people getting far more thorough goings over than that.

[1480]

@ S S.

Understand where you are coming from, and agree with some of the things you present. But the fact is, the judiciary interprets what is written down, whether or not it was intended or not by the framers.

As to personal responsibility for one's own behavior, I believe if people policed themselves and used a little common sense, we would not need a nanny state.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

In your country(which of course make it eminently relevant) I was searched outside the terminal, then again inside before the check in, then at check in, then again through to departures then once more before actual boarding....and that was before the ATSA was enacted and there was piles of people getting far more thorough goings over than that.

It's the accent, I blame the Simpsons for that. Next time wear a kilt without drawers

It's the accent, I blame the Simpsons for that. Next time wear a kilt without drawers

The accent was in my favour, like I said lots of other passengers(or potential passengers) were getting it very severe from all sorts of security.

[Platapus]

I remember flying in South Korea during the Olympics. TSA needs to talk to the South Koreans.

I have never felt so secure but at the same time respected as when I was in the airport around the time of the Olympics.

1. Security started as you drove in to the parking lot - vehicle was sniffed and scoped.

2. All baggage was inspected roadside at the airport with sniffers and x-ray. Passenger stayed with baggage

3. Passenger escorted baggage to a secondary security screening (x-ray, sniffers and swabs. It was at this point when checked luggage left onto a third check

4. Passengers were scanned in metal detector, wanded, and patted down (two lines per sex)

5. Passengers were scanned and wanded when they got to the waiting area.

6. On the jetway, just prior to entering the aircraft, all passengers were wanded and patted down, as well was all carry on inspected.

The good part was that all this took far less time than it takes TSA and at all times everyone was treated with respect. And most importantly, every thing kept moving.

Armed teams of security with automatic weapons patrolled all the areas. and Dog teams were used.

So much security and so little inconvenience or slow down. Either hire South Korean security as trainers, or just fire TSA and hire South Korean security to do the job.

But seriously, TSA really needs to study how the South Koreans handled security. It was awesome and most importantly, professional.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by 1480

@ S S.

Understand where you are coming from, and agree with some of the things you present. But the fact is, the judiciary interprets what is written down, whether or not it was intended or not by the framers.

That is very true, and unlike some others who deride that, I also understand and accept it while still disagreeing. I'm a huge fan of John Marshall and the amazing way he outfoxed Jefferson to bring about that state of affairs.

As to personal responsibility for one's own behavior, I believe if people policed themselves and used a little common sense, we would not need a nanny state.

I do agree with both your points, and where I disagree, well, there's room for that as well. It's part of what freedom is about.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I remember flying in South Korea during the Olympics. TSA needs to talk to the South Koreans.

I have never felt so secure but at the same time respected as when I was in the airport around the time of the Olympics.

1. Security started as you drove in to the parking lot - vehicle was sniffed and scoped.

2. All baggage was inspected roadside at the airport with sniffers and x-ray. Passenger stayed with baggage

3. Passenger escorted baggage to a secondary security screening (x-ray, sniffers and swabs. It was at this point when checked luggage left onto a third check

4. Passengers were scanned in metal detector, wanded, and patted down (two lines per sex)

5. Passengers were scanned and wanded when they got to the waiting area.

6. On the jetway, just prior to entering the aircraft, all passengers were wanded and patted down, as well was all carry on inspected.

The good part was that all this took far less time than it takes TSA and at all times everyone was treated with respect. And most importantly, every thing kept moving.

Armed teams of security with automatic weapons patrolled all the areas. and Dog teams were used.

So much security and so little inconvenience or slow down. Either hire South Korean security as trainers, or just fire TSA and hire South Korean security to do the job.

But seriously, TSA really needs to study how the South Koreans handled security. It was awesome and most importantly, professional.

The problem with our TSA is it's a J O B. Pride and in some cases professionalism in work is out the window for the most part. Accountability means common sense goes out the window. As I was taught by an old timer when I first got on the job: treat people as you would want your own family to be treated by another officer. Yeah, I guess he plagiarized the golden rule a bit, but it made sense.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

When one looks out for their own self interest, one works a lot harder.

More debate is needed, otherwise we will be chanting the following:

Oranges and lemons,
Say the bells of St. Clement's.

You owe me five farthings,
Say the bells of St. Martin's.

When will you pay me?
Say the bells of Old Bailey.

When I grow rich,
Say the bells of Shoreditch.

When will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney.

I do not know,
Says the great bell of Bow.

Here comes a candle to light you to bed,
And here comes a chopper to chop off your head

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by 1480

More debate is needed

Fine. You're a stupid-head, and your mom dresses you funny!