Doubts!? Will they release a new Silent Hunter?! - Page 2

CCIP · 11-23-11, 07:10 PM

Personally, I also think SH4 and 5 get unfair flak as being 'botched' and 'worse' than SH3 - they were not. People really need to go back and remember SH3 as it was when it first came out. It's just that SH3 came after a long drought and filled an empty niche. I think very few people these days remember what SH3 was actually like when it first came out, and tend to compare 4 and 5 to what it became (largely thanks to mods) rather than on their own merits. That's not to say 4 and 5 shouldn't have been more, but the rumors of their being worse than 3 are greatly exaggerated. But they came at a point when the target market was already saturated. SH4 tried to capture that market with another theater, wasn't a significant technical improvement over 3 (although still an improvement), but that market was so sold on SH3 that many were too loyal to the Atlantic theater to give the Pacific a fair try. IMHO as both a game and a platform for mods, SH4 is far better than SH3. It's only because of loyalty of the fanbase to its predecessor that it never took off. SH5 instead tried to expand the market to more casual players - again, not a terrible idea, and again many good concepts. Sadly money ran out before ambitions, and the design was never really finished, and support cut off early. But as released, I'd argue it was better than SH3. It was just that we came to expect a lot more thanks to SH3, which brought something incredibly fresh to the table that, for all its flaws, still turned out to be exactly what so many of us wanted for years.

Give it a few years for technology to get substantially ahead, and the thirst for a new subsim will come back.

11-23-11, 07:24 PM

I think the base is solid through SH5.
They would just need to fix the things that need fixed and not add crap before that!

And if they don't want to do that because they don't want to sink any more $$ into it?

Allow a dedicated Group of Modders the Source Code!
At lest part of it anyway.
We could do so much and it would only put more Money in thier pockets.

OK. I woke up just now from a dream and realized how stupid that sounds to UBI.

What? Get something for free? Where's the catch?

Obltn Strand · 11-24-11, 08:02 AM

This forum has some 65 000 members. I use this as a guideline to represent the number of subsim gamers around the globe.

Privateer said SH5 is solid base. Now 65 000 want's a better subsim like SH5 + additional expansion pack which has all the cool stuff like AI wolfpacks and so on. If this expansion pack costs 30$, profit is 1 350 000$ - expenses. Let's assume this expansion doesn't work without SH5 so ubisoft makes even more profits selling the original product.

I don't know nothing about computer programming. My guestion is how much subsim we can get for 1,5 to 2 million dollars?

Angelo Cire · 11-24-11, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obltn Strand

This forum has some 65 000 members. I use this as a guideline to represent the number of subsim gamers around the globe.

Privateer said SH5 is solid base. Now 65 000 want's a better subsim like SH5 + additional expansion pack which has all the cool stuff like AI wolfpacks and so on. If this expansion pack costs 30$, profit is 1 350 000$ - expenses. Let's assume this expansion doesn't work without SH5 so ubisoft makes even more profits selling the original product.

I don't know nothing about computer programming. My guestion is how much subsim we can get for 1,5 to 2 million dollars?

Unfortunately, companies the size of Ubisoft spend MUCH more than 2 million dollars developing games now, and expect returns in the high-tens to hundreds-of-millions. So called "AAA" games are mostly what Ubisoft focuses on making now, apart from their sport franchises.

The problem with subsims going forward is that any developing company won't want to treat it as a "sim", they'll want to do something "different" and "original" with the genre, like making your sub a home-base from which you conduct land incursions circa 2070..... or whatever they come up with, in order to turn a niche series into their next "AAA" action and/or FPS series.

Besides, "Silent Hunter" is already close enough to "Ghost Recon" or the like to make a gamer unfamiliar with the series think it an FPS just based on the name.

Sailor Steve · 11-24-11, 06:36 PM

Good points. Subsim may have 65,000 members, but only a few hundred are actually active, and don't have a lot of influence on the gaming industry.

Here are some sales figures for the top-selling games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ng_video_games

And here are some sales figures for Silent Hunter.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...94&postcount=3

Even the worst of the best-selling games topped one million units sold. Silent Hunter doesn't even rate 10% of that. Couple that with the idea that even if Ubisoft did make a new one there is no guarantee that it would even be as good as SH5, much less a lot better.

Fish In The Water · 11-24-11, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Even the worst of the best-selling games topped one million units sold. Silent Hunter doesn't even rate 10% of that.

'Tis enough to make me cry in my coffee.

I guess most people just don't get it, which probably makes us eccentric, special or just plain odd. Not that it matters what they think of us, but I suppose it's all the more reason to be civil so we don't end up talking to ourselves.

Sailor Steve · 11-24-11, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

eccentric

That would be you.

Quote:

special

Jimbuna.

Quote:

just plain odd

Hi. My name is Steve.

Fish In The Water · 11-24-11, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Hi. My name is Steve.

Well if you're odd it's a good odd, so three cheers for individualism and standing out from the crowd!

Leandro · 11-24-11, 09:05 PM

What would be a good idea for a new naval emulator?
More realistic graphics?
Better interaction with the command console?
More units of surface and underwater?
Bases with historical fidelity?
Missions based on historical facts?
Increased randomization of missions?
In most cases small details can bring perfection to a successful franchise.
What could be done would be an innovation in the creation and distribution system simulator. For example a simulator already figured into chapters, each chapter interacts perfectly with the earlier and later!?
The creative team could consentrar in important parts of content for better development of the action!
Imagine now the first part of the simulator set in the years that the war occurred, each period in the correct geographical area!
The first part would be based on the German attack on Poland to the United States entered the war.
Some time later it launched the second part with the collapse of France and direct attack on the North American coast.
The third part was the attack on the Caribbean and South Atlantic
The fourth part would be the missions in the Mediterranean and Far East.
And the fifth and last part would be the final part of the war with combat in the Baltic and in the far northern Atlantic, the Arctic.
Not forgetting that each unit that were supposed to lead would be included in the next chapter, since the D type II into type XXIII with a better search units being the most accurate possible, with well-defined missions to attack merchant convoys, the placement of naval mines.
All recorded on Blu-ray or a better media with high storage capacity, it would certainly be something with an unprecedented quality and immersion in a simulator.
Sometimes we have to complain about is the quality of the artificial intelligence in the simulator, but I think the solution is simple! Why not turn into an MMO?! This period that increasingly played online would be fantastic to have a naval emulator based on the second world war, could finally have a challenge to time, with teams playing in major maritime forces in wartime their respective units.
Silent Hunter himself, tried it with the second game of the franchise, which was called Destroyer Command, which could be purchased separately and so we could play with units of surface and subimarinas against each other online, I think the reason for not have vindicated the idea that perhaps was ahead in time.
A simulator MMO with a great graphic quality and the challenge for players to practice their abilities in a naval war!
Potential of naval submarine hunting missions, escort on a mission to protect the naval convoys, large surface vessels in battle of the titans! All this controlled by players, the technology exists, research material has plenty, perhaps what is lacking is good will and vision to do what needs to be done.
If large companies are out of ideas just take a look at it here in the forum! Here in subsim is a great laboratory of ideas is so enjoy!

11-24-11, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

but I suppose it's all the more reason to be civil so we don't end up talking to ourselves.

I talk to myself all the time. I even answer myself!
(It's those voices in my head that speak a different language that bother me. And they won't get a freaking job!)

CCIP · 11-24-11, 10:58 PM

Honestly, I think the best thing in a sub simulator that most of us would want is simply if it took all of the good features of SHIII, put them together with all the good features of Aces of the Deep, added cutting-edge graphics, a more 'living' submarine crew and interior, a more dynamic world and an AI that can "think" both strategically and tactically, we would all be very happy.

I honestly don't see the point of reinventing the wheel, especially since there still hasn't been a subsim that nailed the basic formula perfectly - some have come close, but none have really achieved it. Only with mods and workarounds do we get close.

So if someone makes a subsim in the future, all I wish for is a sim that doesn't miss any of the basics. Call me backwards, but I don't want a revolutionary subsim that changes how we play these games.

Jimbuna · 11-25-11, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Good points. Subsim may have 65,000 members, but only a few hundred are actually active, and don't have a lot of influence on the gaming industry.

Here are some sales figures for the top-selling games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ng_video_games

And here are some sales figures for Silent Hunter.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...94&postcount=3

Even the worst of the best-selling games topped one million units sold. Silent Hunter doesn't even rate 10% of that. Couple that with the idea that even if Ubisoft did make a new one there is no guarantee that it would even be as good as SH5, much less a lot better.

Looked at the PC games list on your Wiki link Steve and I can honestly say I don't have any of those games....not sure if that is a good thing or not

Obltn Strand · 11-25-11, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Honestly, I think the best thing in a sub simulator that most of us would want is simply if it took all of the good features of SHIII, put them together with all the good features of Aces of the Deep, added cutting-edge graphics, a more 'living' submarine crew and interior, a more dynamic world and an AI that can "think" both strategically and tactically, we would all be very happy.

That pretty much does the trick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

So if someone makes a subsim in the future, all I wish for is a sim that doesn't miss any of the basics. Call me backwards, but I don't want a revolutionary subsim that changes how we play these games.

Subsims aren't very innovative games. Pretty much same deal every time. You hunt lone ships and convoys. Fire torpedoes and deck gun and dodge depth charges.
Ubisoft based SH5 on crew interaction and walk around submarine and disregarding all things mentioned by CCIP.

Now back into daydreaming.

Checked those sales figures and the most optimistic number is 200 000 potential buyers. Let's go with realistic 100 000.

Subsimmers is like any society albeit being special, eccentric or just plain odd. Power of society comes from it's members and in modern times it comes down to money. 50$ x 100 000= 5 000 000$. More difficult question is how to colllect this sum. I repeat and rephrase my original question: Can someone give me an estimation what would it cost to make a good subsim?

Herr-Berbunch · 11-25-11, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Looked at the PC games list on your Wiki link Steve and I can honestly say I don't have any of those games....not sure if that is a good thing or not

Me neither.

One thing I really, really hate is going on a website that sells games and selecting 'Simulation' only to find page upon page of that dross called The Sims before getting to anything remotely simulatory.

Jimbuna · 11-25-11, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Me neither.

One thing I really, really hate is going on a website that sells games and selecting 'Simulation' only to find page upon page of that dross called The Sims before getting to anything remotely simulatory.

I think my lad had the original or something of that nature.

11-23-11, 07:10 PM	#16
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Personally, I also think SH4 and 5 get unfair flak as being 'botched' and 'worse' than SH3 - they were not. People really need to go back and remember SH3 as it was when it first came out. It's just that SH3 came after a long drought and filled an empty niche. I think very few people these days remember what SH3 was actually like when it first came out, and tend to compare 4 and 5 to what it became (largely thanks to mods) rather than on their own merits. That's not to say 4 and 5 shouldn't have been more, but the rumors of their being worse than 3 are greatly exaggerated. But they came at a point when the target market was already saturated. SH4 tried to capture that market with another theater, wasn't a significant technical improvement over 3 (although still an improvement), but that market was so sold on SH3 that many were too loyal to the Atlantic theater to give the Pacific a fair try. IMHO as both a game and a platform for mods, SH4 is far better than SH3. It's only because of loyalty of the fanbase to its predecessor that it never took off. SH5 instead tried to expand the market to more casual players - again, not a terrible idea, and again many good concepts. Sadly money ran out before ambitions, and the design was never really finished, and support cut off early. But as released, I'd argue it was better than SH3. It was just that we came to expect a lot more thanks to SH3, which brought something incredibly fresh to the table that, for all its flaws, still turned out to be exactly what so many of us wanted for years. Give it a few years for technology to get substantially ahead, and the thirst for a new subsim will come back. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

11-24-11, 08:02 AM	#18
Obltn Strand Commodore Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 614 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	This forum has some 65 000 members. I use this as a guideline to represent the number of subsim gamers around the globe. Privateer said SH5 is solid base. Now 65 000 want's a better subsim like SH5 + additional expansion pack which has all the cool stuff like AI wolfpacks and so on. If this expansion pack costs 30$, profit is 1 350 000$ - expenses. Let's assume this expansion doesn't work without SH5 so ubisoft makes even more profits selling the original product. I don't know nothing about computer programming. My guestion is how much subsim we can get for 1,5 to 2 million dollars? __________________ Himmel, sukeltakaa!

11-24-11, 06:36 PM	#20
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Good points. Subsim may have 65,000 members, but only a few hundred are actually active, and don't have a lot of influence on the gaming industry. Here are some sales figures for the top-selling games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ng_video_games And here are some sales figures for Silent Hunter. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...94&postcount=3 Even the worst of the best-selling games topped one million units sold. Silent Hunter doesn't even rate 10% of that. Couple that with the idea that even if Ubisoft did make a new one there is no guarantee that it would even be as good as SH5, much less a lot better. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-24-11, 09:05 PM	#24
Leandro Nub Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3 Downloads: 577 Uploads: 0	which would be a good idea What would be a good idea for a new naval emulator? More realistic graphics? Better interaction with the command console? More units of surface and underwater? Bases with historical fidelity? Missions based on historical facts? Increased randomization of missions? In most cases small details can bring perfection to a successful franchise. What could be done would be an innovation in the creation and distribution system simulator. For example a simulator already figured into chapters, each chapter interacts perfectly with the earlier and later!? The creative team could consentrar in important parts of content for better development of the action! Imagine now the first part of the simulator set in the years that the war occurred, each period in the correct geographical area! The first part would be based on the German attack on Poland to the United States entered the war. Some time later it launched the second part with the collapse of France and direct attack on the North American coast. The third part was the attack on the Caribbean and South Atlantic The fourth part would be the missions in the Mediterranean and Far East. And the fifth and last part would be the final part of the war with combat in the Baltic and in the far northern Atlantic, the Arctic. Not forgetting that each unit that were supposed to lead would be included in the next chapter, since the D type II into type XXIII with a better search units being the most accurate possible, with well-defined missions to attack merchant convoys, the placement of naval mines. All recorded on Blu-ray or a better media with high storage capacity, it would certainly be something with an unprecedented quality and immersion in a simulator. Sometimes we have to complain about is the quality of the artificial intelligence in the simulator, but I think the solution is simple! Why not turn into an MMO?! This period that increasingly played online would be fantastic to have a naval emulator based on the second world war, could finally have a challenge to time, with teams playing in major maritime forces in wartime their respective units. Silent Hunter himself, tried it with the second game of the franchise, which was called Destroyer Command, which could be purchased separately and so we could play with units of surface and subimarinas against each other online, I think the reason for not have vindicated the idea that perhaps was ahead in time. A simulator MMO with a great graphic quality and the challenge for players to practice their abilities in a naval war! Potential of naval submarine hunting missions, escort on a mission to protect the naval convoys, large surface vessels in battle of the titans! All this controlled by players, the technology exists, research material has plenty, perhaps what is lacking is good will and vision to do what needs to be done. If large companies are out of ideas just take a look at it here in the forum! Here in subsim is a great laboratory of ideas is so enjoy!

11-24-11, 10:58 PM	#26
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Honestly, I think the best thing in a sub simulator that most of us would want is simply if it took all of the good features of SHIII, put them together with all the good features of Aces of the Deep, added cutting-edge graphics, a more 'living' submarine crew and interior, a more dynamic world and an AI that can "think" both strategically and tactically, we would all be very happy. I honestly don't see the point of reinventing the wheel, especially since there still hasn't been a subsim that nailed the basic formula perfectly - some have come close, but none have really achieved it. Only with mods and workarounds do we get close. So if someone makes a subsim in the future, all I wish for is a sim that doesn't miss any of the basics. Call me backwards, but I don't want a revolutionary subsim that changes how we play these games. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

11-23-11, 07:24 PM	#17
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I think the base is solid through SH5. They would just need to fix the things that need fixed and not add crap before that! And if they don't want to do that because they don't want to sink any more $$ into it? Allow a dedicated Group of Modders the Source Code! At lest part of it anyway. We could do so much and it would only put more Money in thier pockets. OK. I woke up just now from a dream and realized how stupid that sounds to UBI. What? Get something for free? Where's the catch?