ai traffic

Daniel Prates · 11-12-11, 02:28 PM

You will never (or rarely) find targets in the open ocean. It is just too large for you to bump into anything too frequently. Now what you can do, is to prey on natural chocking points, or known sealanes.

Some supermods as RSRD and TMO deal with the issue of putting historicaly acurate traffic in their correct positions. But I would guess that your current problem is not looking in the right places.

denny927 · 11-21-11, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

You will never (or rarely) find targets in the open ocean. It is just too large for you to bump into anything too frequently. Now what you can do, is to prey on natural chocking points, or known sealanes.

Some supermods as RSRD and TMO deal with the issue of putting historicaly acurate traffic in their correct positions. But I would guess that your current problem is not looking in the right places.

thanks at all...i'll give a try tomorrow following this map,seems very good, after sending to the "bikini bottom" some dd and some merchant( im in the middle of a small convoy)

Armistead · 11-21-11, 07:40 AM

Stock traffic is poorly done in game, ships can spawn places where historically you wouldn't ever see them, moreso with capital ships such as carriers. Stock includes some of the battles, but poorly done.

TMO traffic is basically stock traffic, except in later versions Ducimas started playing with traffic. He would admit TMO is not a mod like RSRD traffic wise, but seems last I looked at TMO traffic alone he reworked some of the battles more correctly and added some minor traffic, but overall it's still mostly random stock traffic.

RSRD totally rewrites traffic to almost historic perfection, however some find it difficult finding traffic because they're use to stock traffic that can pop up about anywhere anytime. RSRD actually scripts over 1500 historical convoys and adds 100's of battles small to large. If you know history or use common sense as they war progresses you will find RSRD a great mod. The battles are amazing. For instance the Solomons campaign is absent in stock, TMO has a lil, RSRD scripts all the battles and action. There were several large battles and many smaller ones there. It's important to stay in good shipping lanes with RSRD the correct year, doing so you can run into large convoys and invasion groups, 30-60 ships.

Daniel Prates · 11-21-11, 08:44 AM

RIght on. TMO + RSRD is my favorite supermod pack so far.

denny927 · 11-21-11, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Stock traffic is poorly done in game, ships can spawn places where historically you wouldn't ever see them, moreso with capital ships such as carriers. Stock includes some of the battles, but poorly done.

TMO traffic is basically stock traffic, except in later versions Ducimas started playing with traffic. He would admit TMO is not a mod like RSRD traffic wise, but seems last I looked at TMO traffic alone he reworked some of the battles more correctly and added some minor traffic, but overall it's still mostly random stock traffic.

RSRD totally rewrites traffic to almost historic perfection, however some find it difficult finding traffic because they're use to stock traffic that can pop up about anywhere anytime. RSRD actually scripts over 1500 historical convoys and adds 100's of battles small to large. If you know history or use common sense as they war progresses you will find RSRD a great mod. The battles are amazing. For instance the Solomons campaign is absent in stock, TMO has a lil, RSRD scripts all the battles and action. There were several large battles and many smaller ones there. It's important to stay in good shipping lanes with RSRD the correct year, doing so you can run into large convoys and invasion groups, 30-60 ships.

thanks again i'll give a look after finish my campaign

Ducimus · 11-21-11, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

TMO traffic is basically stock traffic, except in later versions Ducimas started playing with traffic. He would admit TMO is not a mod like RSRD traffic wise, but seems last I looked at TMO traffic alone he reworked some of the battles more correctly and added some minor traffic, but overall it's still mostly random stock traffic.
.

The only semblence TMO traffic has to stock traffic, is the traffic routes as to where they originate, where they go, and by what avenue of approach are essentially unchanged. All similarities to stock, stop there.

- All convoys zig zag at regular intervals, with some randomization.
- convoy composition is changed
- escort composition is changed
- how frequent the traffic spawns into the game world is changed.
- some speeds are changed
- some cargo (IE what merchants are carrying) is changed

The gist to the traffic in TMO is this:
I took to changing everything i could, that could be changed "globally". Speeds, spawn frequencies, etc etc. After that, i went through each individual entry for traffic, for the entire war, by hand manually to change cargo, and group compositions. Infact, i went through them all, TWICE.

In sum, i put more work into it, then most people realize. I didn't change the traffic routes, because
a.) I'd have to rewrite everything from scratch if i did. ( Considering i changed everything else, I may as well have.)
b.) I couldn't automate or use global commands to change where the traffic routed to. All that, has to be done by hand. In a scenario where i was doing most everything to a supermod by myself, I had to go for efficiency. I had too many pans on the stove.

Most of the changes i did took place in two programs.
a.) an automated campaign scripter whos name i forget. I used this to add zig zag all the traffic. (script this program used courteously provided by Lurker)

b.) WORDPAD. Using find "Find and Replace", very carefully.

Aside from that, i only cracked open the SH4 mission editor, to adjust group composition because, even though it was long, and tedious, it was still the best way i had available to me.

Anyway, there you have it. Even thoguh the traffic routes are the same, everything else is different. Saying TMO traffic is stock, after all the tedious BS i had to do with it, gets me angsty enough to write up this long ass post.

Armistead · 11-21-11, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The only semblence TMO traffic has to stock traffic, is the traffic routes as to where they originate, where they go, and by what avenue of approach are essentially unchanged. All similarities to stock, stop there.

- All convoys zig zag at regular intervals, with some randomization.
- convoy composition is changed
- escort composition is changed
- how frequent the traffic spawns into the game world is changed.
- some speeds are changed
- some cargo (IE what merchants are carrying) is changed

The gist to the traffic in TMO is this:
I took to changing everything i could, that could be changed "globally". Speeds, spawn frequencies, etc etc. After that, i went through each individual entry for traffic, for the entire war, by hand manually to change cargo, and group compositions. Infact, i went through them all, TWICE.

In sum, i put more work into it, then most people realize. I didn't change the traffic routes, because
a.) I'd have to rewrite everything from scratch if i did. ( Considering i changed everything else, I may as well have.)
b.) I couldn't automate or use global commands to change where the traffic routed to. All that, has to be done by hand. In a scenario where i was doing most everything to a supermod by myself, I had to go for efficiency. I had too many pans on the stove.

Most of the changes i did took place in two programs.
a.) an automated campaign scripter whos name i forget. I used this to add zig zag all the traffic. (script this program used courteously provided by Lurker)

b.) WORDPAD. Using find "Find and Replace", very carefully.

Aside from that, i only cracked open the SH4 mission editor, to adjust group composition because, even though it was long, and tedious, it was still the best way i had available to me.

Anyway, there you have it. Even thoguh the traffic routes are the same, everything else is different. Saying TMO traffic is stock, after all the tedious BS i had to do with it, gets me angsty enough to write up this long ass post.

Haha, I enjoyed the long post, but seems the last I looked traffic routes were the same as stock...

Honestly it would be silly to rewrite traffic with RSRD, so I don't blame you..Seems I played TMO without RSRD once and I do now recall some speed changes and better zig patterns.

I thought you rescripted the battles somewhat, added more correct groups and courses?

Ducimus · 11-21-11, 06:12 PM

If you still have TMO installed, pick any convoy layer. Say late 42, early 43 or onward.

Immediately, you should notice that the convoy route while going along the same general path is not exactly the same. Zoom in on any convoy path, and it will look something like this:

Each one of those legs, is roughly 20 to 30 KM if i remember correctly. Each circle you see at one of those waypoints, if i remember correctly, is about 10 KM.

Traffic doesnt follow the exact line, because the 10KM radius at each waypoint defines the width of that lane. It also says, "I will turn randomly at this waypoint anywhere within this 10 KM radius." So if one deduces the zig zag pattern, and thinks each leg to be a certain length, the convoy will still not shift direction at 100% perfect intervals. It may zig zag a little bit before, or after you anticipate it to, assuming one you were to track a convoy long enough to figure out roughly how long the zig zag legs were.

In each convoy entry. Click on it, right click, and i beleive the sub menu was "define group composition". Compare that with any stock version of the exact same entry and you'll find several differences.

1.) Each unit listed as 1 each. I didn't put, "4 Each of This ship". I put 4 different indvidual entries. The reason is, in SH3, sometime ships would spawn on top of each other, Or they wouldn't follow in a group correctly. I didn't take any chances and "fixed" this as I knew to do in SH3.

2.) All units are "generic". Meaning, the game will randomly spawn any ship within this class. Generic tanker, generic troop ship. Each time the group spawns, it will randomize the ship within that type. So no instances of that convoy group should have the exact same ships.

3.) You'll find some ships have ammo as a cargo, some tankers have oil or fuel. I even went as so far as to make sure that tankers heading to japan had oil/fuel. Tankers heading away from japan might not. From what i've read, Nobody seems to have figured out that northbound tankers have a much higher probably to go BOOM, then southbound tankers in TMO.

4.) Crew ratings (obviously)

5.) Number of columns, and their spacing. As i recall, default spacing is 500 meters. I made them around 700 or so. This is to fix ships from fishtailing while following the ship in front of it. Stock SH3 had this problem. Again, i didn't take any chances, and fixed this ahead of time.

6.) Some units are not 100% spawning. I intentionally lowered the spawn chances of some ships within a convoy group, to randomize the number of ships within the convoy, and/or the number of escorts i has. Idea being, along with the use of generic entries that no two convoys should be of the exact same ships and numbers of them. In theory at least.

7.) The number of escorts and the number of merchants. Stock did some stupid things like 10 escorts and 30 merchants for every convoy. This is one of the first things I addressed.

lastly, If you check the "group properties", you should notice the spawn frequency is very different then stock.

Armistead · 11-21-11, 07:45 PM

I'll take a look when I feel like backing out all my mods to TMO. I assume you use the batch editor, what I use to rework RSRD traffic... The zig work is much needed in RSRD.

I'm sure you know the evasive short zig ships take when they know you're around, really more helming than a zig, do you know how to increase that?

Indeed, if you went through each group, that was some work...

11-12-11, 02:28 PM	#1
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	You will never (or rarely) find targets in the open ocean. It is just too large for you to bump into anything too frequently. Now what you can do, is to prey on natural chocking points, or known sealanes. Some supermods as RSRD and TMO deal with the issue of putting historicaly acurate traffic in their correct positions. But I would guess that your current problem is not looking in the right places.

11-21-11, 07:40 AM	#3
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Stock traffic is poorly done in game, ships can spawn places where historically you wouldn't ever see them, moreso with capital ships such as carriers. Stock includes some of the battles, but poorly done. TMO traffic is basically stock traffic, except in later versions Ducimas started playing with traffic. He would admit TMO is not a mod like RSRD traffic wise, but seems last I looked at TMO traffic alone he reworked some of the battles more correctly and added some minor traffic, but overall it's still mostly random stock traffic. RSRD totally rewrites traffic to almost historic perfection, however some find it difficult finding traffic because they're use to stock traffic that can pop up about anywhere anytime. RSRD actually scripts over 1500 historical convoys and adds 100's of battles small to large. If you know history or use common sense as they war progresses you will find RSRD a great mod. The battles are amazing. For instance the Solomons campaign is absent in stock, TMO has a lil, RSRD scripts all the battles and action. There were several large battles and many smaller ones there. It's important to stay in good shipping lanes with RSRD the correct year, doing so you can run into large convoys and invasion groups, 30-60 ships.

11-21-11, 08:44 AM	#4
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	RIght on. TMO + RSRD is my favorite supermod pack so far.

11-21-11, 06:12 PM	#8
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	If you still have TMO installed, pick any convoy layer. Say late 42, early 43 or onward. Immediately, you should notice that the convoy route while going along the same general path is not exactly the same. Zoom in on any convoy path, and it will look something like this: Each one of those legs, is roughly 20 to 30 KM if i remember correctly. Each circle you see at one of those waypoints, if i remember correctly, is about 10 KM. Traffic doesnt follow the exact line, because the 10KM radius at each waypoint defines the width of that lane. It also says, "I will turn randomly at this waypoint anywhere within this 10 KM radius." So if one deduces the zig zag pattern, and thinks each leg to be a certain length, the convoy will still not shift direction at 100% perfect intervals. It may zig zag a little bit before, or after you anticipate it to, assuming one you were to track a convoy long enough to figure out roughly how long the zig zag legs were. In each convoy entry. Click on it, right click, and i beleive the sub menu was "define group composition". Compare that with any stock version of the exact same entry and you'll find several differences. 1.) Each unit listed as 1 each. I didn't put, "4 Each of This ship". I put 4 different indvidual entries. The reason is, in SH3, sometime ships would spawn on top of each other, Or they wouldn't follow in a group correctly. I didn't take any chances and "fixed" this as I knew to do in SH3. 2.) All units are "generic". Meaning, the game will randomly spawn any ship within this class. Generic tanker, generic troop ship. Each time the group spawns, it will randomize the ship within that type. So no instances of that convoy group should have the exact same ships. 3.) You'll find some ships have ammo as a cargo, some tankers have oil or fuel. I even went as so far as to make sure that tankers heading to japan had oil/fuel. Tankers heading away from japan might not. From what i've read, Nobody seems to have figured out that northbound tankers have a much higher probably to go BOOM, then southbound tankers in TMO. 4.) Crew ratings (obviously) 5.) Number of columns, and their spacing. As i recall, default spacing is 500 meters. I made them around 700 or so. This is to fix ships from fishtailing while following the ship in front of it. Stock SH3 had this problem. Again, i didn't take any chances, and fixed this ahead of time. 6.) Some units are not 100% spawning. I intentionally lowered the spawn chances of some ships within a convoy group, to randomize the number of ships within the convoy, and/or the number of escorts i has. Idea being, along with the use of generic entries that no two convoys should be of the exact same ships and numbers of them. In theory at least. 7.) The number of escorts and the number of merchants. Stock did some stupid things like 10 escorts and 30 merchants for every convoy. This is one of the first things I addressed. lastly, If you check the "group properties", you should notice the spawn frequency is very different then stock.

11-21-11, 07:45 PM	#9
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I'll take a look when I feel like backing out all my mods to TMO. I assume you use the batch editor, what I use to rework RSRD traffic... The zig work is much needed in RSRD. I'm sure you know the evasive short zig ships take when they know you're around, really more helming than a zig, do you know how to increase that? Indeed, if you went through each group, that was some work...