Mk 24 FIDO

[Ducimus]

I don't remember if SH3 has all the "variables" to play with in the SIM file for torpedo's as SH4 does, but assuming you had enough to play with, you could make them very finicky and only detonate under ideal, hard to obtain circumstances. According to the wiki on it (yeah i know, i know), the Mark 24 only had a 22% success rate. (which is almost 1 in 4 of them working, but it's not like it was a sure fire uboat killer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_Mine

[Hitman]

But in SH3 there is no AI for air dropped torpedo Is it possible to have the Ai drop it as a DC or bomb and still work as a homing torpedo? (Though it will be launched too close)

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Hitman

But in SH3 there is no AI for air dropped torpedo

Oh well. Nevermind, though id be surprised if someone around here couldn't mod it in. I know Air dropped torpedoes work in SH4, though the AI's aim is crappy, and the torpedo's aren't homing. On that note, I think someone modded that and got homing to work, though im not sure, i only saw reference to it a long time ago. So I can't say for sure.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

According to the wiki on it (yeah i know, i know), the Mark 24 only had a 22% success rate. (which is almost 1 in 4 of them working, but it's not like it was a sure fire uboat killer)

The problem I see with that is, it doesn't matter if they work or not. If they don't work the u-boat crew would never know. If it did work the u-boat crew would never know. Well, you'd know you died, but probably not why.

[Hellraiser]

YES! You would know if you were listening on hydrophones.....torpedoes are audible even at long range thru hydrophones.

It's actually kind of eerie to listen to....a hum and a wail at the same time.

Anyone ever listened to your own torpedoes running hot??

I personally would love to see the MK24 modeled....would add some bone- cracking suspense IMO.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Hellraiser

YES! You would know if you were listening on hydrophones...

Your example of running hot and true works because the soundman is specifically listening to his own torpedoes for abnormalities. If the soundman is listening in the right direction he might hear a FIDO coming. Of course if it's running true it will be the last thing he ever hears. My point was that being killed by a wandering monster you can't do anything about is not fun.

[Hellraiser]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

My point was that being killed by a wandering monster you can't do anything about is not fun.

Just like in real life ....eh?

Life & death on a U-Boat was swift and ugly....and without pity or remorse. Not unlike a tree that falls in the forest...with no-one around.

Why would a player interested in realism and historical fact hide from such a feature?

If you get under quick enough...Fido won't get you....hesitate and....BOOOM!

[U-Falke]

But what if I stop the engines, or drop a decoy, what happens?

[igorlikespike]

Originally Posted by Hellraiser

Just like in real life ....eh?

Life & death on a U-Boat was swift and ugly....and without pity or remorse. Not unlike a tree that falls in the forest...with no-one around.

Why would a player interested in realism and historical fact hide from such a feature?

If you get under quick enough...Fido won't get you....hesitate and....BOOOM!

Woohoo!
I never thought that this question would raise so many responses. Nice!

I know that it is not fun to get killed by something you do not see as Sailor Steve and jimbuna said, but if we all want to be as close to realism as possible, then we should at least try to model this serious threat to u-boats after March 1943. I guess that from the gameplay point of view it is far more fun to be playing the "Happy days" campaign in 1940 and early 1942, than the period after March 1943. with all the advanced ASW capabilities, but being an u-boat ace in the "tough period" is something all of us are trying to be.

I accept the Ducimus criticism of using the event camera. Of all the options, this is the ONLY ONE i am using (97% realistic), so from now on, in campaigns, I am swiching this option off permanently. But correct me if I'm wrong, the hedgehog dc pattern doesn't make enough sound for my sonarman to pick up, unlike normal DC (dc in the water sir). So, if you get hit by a hedgehog dc and not using event camera, you will not know what hit you, THE SAME as you wouldn't know if a fido homed on your u-boat.
My only wish is that i would have the same modding abilities as some oy ou guys so that i could mod the fido mysef instead of just talking about it.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The problem I see with that is, it doesn't matter if they work or not. If they don't work the u-boat crew would never know. If it did work the u-boat crew would never know. Well, you'd know you died, but probably not why.

My counterpoint to that is the majority of people who play any SH title, are eye candy whores. Most people have the external camera on half the time anyway. Barring that, event camera would pick it up too when the airplane attacked.

edit: It also occurs to me that one could give this homing torpedo a unique splash sound when it hits the water, and make it audible to the player. Similar as to what was done in SH4 for depth charges.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Hellraiser

Just like in real life ....eh?

Life & death on a U-Boat was swift and ugly....and without pity or remorse. Not unlike a tree that falls in the forest...with no-one around.

I was just explaining why it hasn't been done. It was discussed long ago and the main reason it went knowhere is that realism is good, and hedgehogs are cool, but even dying from a mine is not so cool when you can't see it or do anything about it. I wouldn't mind it at all if the game was programmed to tell you how and why you died. Of course I could argue that sometimes people die in traffic accidents while on the way to work. Would you want that in the game? On the other hand, I'm just teasing. Of course there's nothing wrong with the idea, and any objections are purely my own.

Why would a player interested in realism and historical fact hide from such a feature?

The logical extension of that argument is to ask why a player interested in realism and historical fact would start a new career after he died in the game. The realistic thing would be to put it away and never play it again, or at least not for a year.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

My counterpoint to that is the majority of people who play any SH title, are eye candy whores. Most people have the external camera on half the time anyway. Barring that, event camera would pick it up too when the airplane attacked.

Good point. I use the external camera, but not the event camera. And of course any mod is optional, so no one would actually have to use it.

edit: It also occurs to me that one could give this homing torpedo a unique splash sound when it hits the water, and make it audible to the player. Similar as to what was done in SH4 for depth charges.

That's a good idea too.

[igorlikespike]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I was just explaining why it hasn't been done. It was discussed long ago and the main reason it went knowhere is that realism is good, and hedgehogs are cool, but even dying from a mine is not so cool when you can't see it or do anything about it. I wouldn't mind it at all if the game was programmed to tell you how and why you died. Of course I could argue that sometimes people die in traffic accidents while on the way to work. Would you want that in the game? On the other hand, I'm just teasing. Of course there's nothing wrong with the idea, and any objections are purely my own.


The logical extension of that argument is to ask why a player interested in realism and historical fact would start a new career after he died in the game. The realistic thing would be to put it away and never play it again, or at least not for a year.


Good point. I use the external camera, but not the event camera. And of course any mod is optional, so no one would actually have to use it.


That's a good idea too.

I agree with you on that it wolud be fair to the players that the game program tells them what were they killed by. I figure that fido would be JGSME enabled, so If one got tired of getting killed, one would simply turn it of.

But when you mention mines - in GWX 3.0 they are included and the only advice the mod programers give you to counter them is to stay away from minefilelds. I know that approacning &attacking a port is a very risky business primarily because of mines so I seldom try it. And according to the GWX 3.o manual the minefield barrier on the eastern English coast is simulated, though I never got killed by it, even when travelling at periscpe depth - depth that mines were specificaly set so as to kill u-boats. Even if you hit a mine you do not always get killed straight away-i tried it deliberately. And according to the figures quoted below, firing a fido did not always result in a straight u-boat kill, some boats were only damaged by it.

[andqui]

If someone implements a working representation of a Fido it would be really cool. Of course it would be optional- if it's no fun being killed by one, then don't use it, or just simply stay away from the mid-Atlantic after 1943. The "what the hell just hit me" factor would be just like if you run into a mine- I've only done that once, but it didn't suddenly make the entire game "no fun" just because I wasn't explicitly told it was a mine. Sh!t happens to uboats. I honestly don't see the difference between getting abruptly sunk by the depth charges you didn't hear, the hedgehog out of nowhere, or the sudden fido while escaping from aircraft, and within the limitations of the game there's no reason not to add a fido if we already have other things that can quickly sink us when we don't expect it. I can't look it up, but there weren't that many Fido attacks in the war- so it would still be a bit of a rarity.

[igorlikespike]

Originally Posted by andqui

If someone implements a working representation of a Fido it would be really cool. Of course it would be optional- if it's no fun being killed by one, then don't use it, or just simply stay away from the mid-Atlantic after 1943. The "what the hell just hit me" factor would be just like if you run into a mine- I've only done that once, but it didn't suddenly make the entire game "no fun" just because I wasn't explicitly told it was a mine. Sh!t happens to uboats. I honestly don't see the difference between getting abruptly sunk by the depth charges you didn't hear, the hedgehog out of nowhere, or the sudden fido while escaping from aircraft, and within the limitations of the game there's no reason not to add a fido if we already have other things that can quickly sink us when we don't expect it. I can't look it up, but there weren't that many Fido attacks in the war- so it would still be a bit of a rarity.

Totally agree with you.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by igorlikespike

And according to the GWX 3.o manual the minefield barrier on the eastern English coast is simulated, though I never got killed by it, even when travelling at periscpe depth - depth that mines were specificaly set so as to kill u-boats.

Same here. I zig-zag in and out of there on a regular basis and never hit bupkis. Seems much ado about nothing.