Celestial navigation by day

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The point is that the map is indeed spot on. It's impossible to be out of position by even one mile, whereas in real life navigation isn't perfect. It can be very close, but seldom perfect. The other half is that when you can't see the sky you have to use dead reckoning, which is the knowledge of your speed and course applied to your last known position, which is prey to currents you can't see. Some people want that uncertainty, and some want to actually navigate their boat.

That doesn't appear to be a point as much as a desire. Celestial navigation isn't needed in SH4 and wasn't part of the game's realism settings. I'd like to be able to explore my submarine from stem to stern but there's no point in it, game-wise, because it's not necessary. Now, immersive role-play wise, it'd be cool but if it's not practical to mod or implement then there's no point in asking for it as much as there is in daydreaming about it with other sub-simmers here.

If it does become a mod, well, honestly, there's a few desires I have that outweigh shooting an azimuth in between missing targets with my torpedoes. But to each their own and I'm not one to spray on anyone's celestial parade.

[Rockin Robbins]

Arlo, I wouldn't mind the ability to do celestial navigation if it were possible in-game. What's being done now is that people have turned off their position indicator in the nav map. Then they feed the game position to a separate planetarium program. Apparently they even have an in-planetarium sextant so you can actually simulate taking a sight. Then, after doing the calculations to obtain longitude and latitude for your sub, you go back into SH4 to plot the position.

Unfortunately, you also give up the ability to track target positions relative to your boat because there is no indicator for your boat's position. You just end up giving away three times more authenticity than you gain.

If you're not playing the game as such and just want to learn celestial navigation it's a great practice tool.

But in-game our sky isn't good enough to navigate from. I've demonstrated that moon phases and positions are totally wackazoid. You see, I have some of those whiz bang planetarium programs, Maurice Chevalley's Sky Charts (highly recommended and free!) and The Sky for Windows by Software Bisque.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Arlo, I wouldn't mind the ability to do celestial navigation if it were possible in-game. What's being done now is that people have turned off their position indicator in the nav map. Then they feed the game position to a separate planetarium program. Apparently they even have an in-planetarium sextant so you can actually simulate taking a sight. Then, after doing the calculations to obtain longitude and latitude for your sub, you go back into SH4 to plot the position.

Unfortunately, you also give up the ability to track target positions relative to your boat because there is no indicator for your boat's position. You just end up giving away three times more authenticity than you gain.

If you're not playing the game as such and just want to learn celestial navigation it's a great practice tool.

But in-game our sky isn't good enough to navigate from. I've demonstrated that moon phases and positions are totally wackazoid. You see, I have some of those whiz bang planetarium programs, Maurice Chevalley's Sky Charts (highly recommended and free!) and The Sky for Windows by Software Bisque.

If someone can guru a mod that can make it come to pass, I'm good with it. Alas, I'm also good with no mod of this nature surfacing (currently - ya never know what I may get a hankerin' for the next day). It's pretty skies (or stormy, which, well, as long as I'm not really cold and wet, is pretty too) and water breaking over the prow and I'm good with that. What would really float my boat, so to speak, would be the ability to do some shore fun - both as part of a party sent ashore in combat or on liberty. And it would be fun to have the ability to form and join a boarding party (on those oh so rare occasions that a sub got to board a combatant).

We all got dreams and I support all of em ... just mine more. But until I become a modder all I am is a voice in the peanut gallery. Well, I guess even if I manage to mod, I am.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Arlo

That doesn't appear to be a point as much as a desire.

Absolutely true, but also true of manual targetting and a host of other options. Some people want to do it.

What I would like to see in a sub sim is semi-manual everything. When the weather is clear you follow your listed waypoints. When it's not so fine there is a chance the boat will get off course, but the chart will still show you on track, until the next clear day and then you find out where you really are, and lay new waypoints. Same with targetting. You get the range and bearing yourself from the periscope, and the target's estimated position is drawn on the map. You do it again, and it's more accurate. The more you do it the better the solution is. Of course, as with navigation, you might still be off.

[Arlo]

Sounds interesting. But then it becomes a matter of what may or may not be a practical investment for those wonderful modders. Can it be done? Can it be done easier than a mod that'll let me play acey-deucey in the crew's mess? I may hafta put up or shut up and learn to mod my ownself. (But I'd download a 'celestial nav' mod to give it a go if someone else invested their time on one for the sake of the community. As long as it's TMO 2.2 compat.)

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm afraid all this stuff is hard coded in the .exe files. Modding those isn't modding, it's illegal hacking, so you have two choices as a modder.

Choice 1 is to turn off the sub position symbol on the nav map and attack map, find the sub position in the game files and feed that to an exterior planetarium file. That's what has been done by the navigation mod people for SH4. In doing so you give up a ton of realistic and useful things......like the ability to attack and sink opponents. This is not a workable scheme to my way of thinking other than as a proof of concept and a navigation trainer.

Choice 2 is not to do celestial navigation in SH4. That's been my path.

Or you could go to door #3 where the object of the game seems to be walking around your sub asking how the soup is for the ten thousandth time to build morale, while playing a bizarre Frankenstein poorly executed submarine meets horrible parody of the Sims monster. I'll pass on that one too. I could care less if Johan's girlfriend is pregnant with kittens.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Or you could go to door #3 where the object of the game seems to be walking around your sub asking how the soup is for the ten thousandth time to build morale, while playing a bizarre Frankenstein poorly executed submarine meets horrible parody of the Sims monster. I'll pass on that one too. I could care less if Johan's girlfriend is pregnant with kittens.

Hehehe .... loud and clear.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Or you could go to door #3 where the object of the game seems to be walking around your sub asking how the soup is for the ten thousandth time to build morale, while playing a bizarre Frankenstein poorly executed submarine meets horrible parody of the Sims monster. I'll pass on that one too. I could care less if Johan's girlfriend is pregnant with kittens.

Or you could go to door #4 where the object of the game is whatever OHII has in the works, using whatever interface style you prefer (SH3/4/5), with unparalleled graphics, an AI that will test your abilities as captain, and real navigation (none of this fake stuff you're doing in SH4). That door #4 would be SH5 modded - a completely different game from the original If you haven't tried it you are really missing out

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Or you could go to door #4 where the object of the game is whatever OHII has in the works, using whatever interface style you prefer (SH3/4/5), with unparalleled graphics, an AI that will test your abilities as captain, and real navigation (none of this fake stuff you're doing in SH4). That door #4 would be SH5 modded - a completely different game from the original If you haven't tried it you are really missing out

Does SH5/OHII feature U.S. fleet boats in the mods yet?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Does SH5/OHII feature U.S. fleet boats in the mods yet?

No, but TDW wasn't really dissing SH4, he was responding directly to RR's comments on SH5. Responding to a single point sometimes causes trouble. I should know.

[Pilot_76]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Does SH5/OHII feature U.S. fleet boats in the mods yet?

May I ask what is OHII?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Or you could go to door #4 where the object of the game is whatever OHII has in the works, using whatever interface style you prefer (SH3/4/5), with unparalleled graphics, an AI that will test your abilities as captain, and real navigation (none of this fake stuff you're doing in SH4). That door #4 would be SH5 modded - a completely different game from the original If you haven't tried it you are really missing out

I'll continue to "miss out" thank you. I have no desire to feed the monster. My money stays in my pocket until something better appears.

[Pilot_76]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I'm afraid all this stuff is hard coded in the .exe files. Modding those isn't modding, it's illegal hacking, so you have two choices as a modder.

Choice 1 is to turn off the sub position symbol on the nav map and attack map, find the sub position in the game files and feed that to an exterior planetarium file. That's what has been done by the navigation mod people for SH4. In doing so you give up a ton of realistic and useful things......like the ability to attack and sink opponents. This is not a workable scheme to my way of thinking other than as a proof of concept and a navigation trainer.

Choice 2 is not to do celestial navigation in SH4. That's been my path.

Or you could go to door #3 where the object of the game seems to be walking around your sub asking how the soup is for the ten thousandth time to build morale, while playing a bizarre Frankenstein poorly executed submarine meets horrible parody of the Sims monster. I'll pass on that one too. I could care less if Johan's girlfriend is pregnant with kittens.

I am with Stellarium 11.0. Modified the pyhton script to work with 11.0. I will post this as a new topic after some more testing.