SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-04-11, 08:01 AM   #1
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 190,552
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post


A blockade must be maintained against ALL attempts to breach it, making one single exception, or being unable to prevent just one single breaching, nullifies the formal legality of the whole blockade alltogether. That is what makes it an all-or-nothing-at-all game for Israel. They CAN NOT allow exceptions.
I don't think that is actually the case Sky....there have been many instances in history where a blockade has been breached by single ships (usually) but the 'Blockade' continues to be in effect.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!

Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 09:06 AM   #2
Tribesman
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default

Quote:
Yes...international law is pile of crap specially at hands of people whose head is full of the same substance.
That is why you always pipe up to support that rather terrible spokeman when he claims to be following international law, just before the legal details make his statement fall apart at which point you complain about laws you just said were OK
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 02:29 PM   #3
MH
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,184
Downloads: 248
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
That is why you always pipe up to support that rather terrible spokeman when he claims to be following international law, just before the legal details make his statement fall apart at which point you complain about laws you just said were OK
You take yourself too seriously....any way thanks mother.

Push the button //get bacon
MH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 03:13 PM   #4
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 190,552
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Quote:
The US had urged the activists not to try to break the blockade. US officials also said Turkey had given assurances it would not send warships to escort the flotilla.
VBery sensible IMO
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!

Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 10:39 AM   #5
Kongo Otto
Commodore
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Augsburg / Germany
Posts: 631
Downloads: 203
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna View Post
I don't think that is actually the case Sky....there have been many instances in history where a blockade has been breached by single ships (usually) but the 'Blockade' continues to be in effect.

If Hamas, which is undoubtedly a Iranian financed terrorist organisation which rules the gaza Strip since 2007, wouldnt be there, there wouldnt be anykind of Blockade at all.
It's as simple as that.
Kongo Otto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 10:39 AM   #6
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 42,634
Downloads: 10
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna View Post
I don't think that is actually the case Sky....there have been many instances in history where a blockade has been breached by single ships (usually) but the 'Blockade' continues to be in effect.
Yes, you can continue a blockade, of course. But you loose the legal status of it being recognised as a "legal" blockade by treaties and/or laws.

It is a juristic formality.

I tried to find an article I read about this during the time of the first Gaza flotilla that escalated so entertainingly, but I haven't found it. There, a university professor for international law explained this and other details of how "blockades" are regulated by international treaties and laws, and very extensively he did. The "one-exception-nullifies-whole-blockade" rule either is an explicit formulation, or a implication, and I never have read or heared it being disupted by law experts.

I am certain that I repeated the key points and also the detail you mention correctly, and while checking that again, I only found this mistake: I said the declaration of London was 1919, but in fact it was 10 years earlier, in 1909.

However, Google is everybody's friend.

What it comes down to, is this: if Israel fails a single ship to stop from breaking the blockade, then it would continue the blokckade, no doubt. But there would be an international uproar since from then on it can no longer claim that its blockade is legal and covered by international law. Go figure what that would mean in the media echo, and for the criticism fired by pro Gaza-lobbies. Once again, Israel woulkd be the bad bad bully of the bloick. Said lobbies, and Turkey, already claim - wrongly - that it is an illegal blockade right now. But then - they would be right, and political Western actors would need to distance themselves even more from Israel.

This is the reason why Turkey is pressing so strongly for breaking the blockade, Turkish ships and warship escort and such. It would be a propaganda coup with long-reaching legal consequences if even just one boat reaches the beach, and it would mount a lot of diplomatic pressure on Israel. If Israel would give up and lift the blockade, Erdoghan I. then could come and present himself as victor and collect the sentiments and build on that for acchieveing Turkish dominance in the region. He does not like that during the Arab spring revolts the Turkish flag was not the banner under which the revolting crowds assembled.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-11, 11:23 AM   #7
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 190,552
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

There may well be something in what you say....I found this: "In order to be binding a blockade must be effective".

http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blockade/

And this: "Blockades were first defined in international law at the Paris Declaration Respecting Maritime Law in 1856. One of the agreed rules was that a blockade had to be effective in order to be lawful. This banned so-called "paper" blockades — blockades that were declared to the blockaded nation, but were not actively enforced"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade

The quote above actually goes some way into explaining why 'paper blockade'.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!

Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.