Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

My issue is protesting at Wall St make very little sense and you agree as well. However, do these folks believe Wall St is going to do anything? Do you think Obama who embraced the protest is going to do anything? No sir...status quo is what is going to happen.

The first step is speaking up. Nothing else can happen unless people speak up.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

What is even more illustrative is those who go beyond praising the system that shafted them and have gotten into lapping up a proposal which asks them to bend over even further for an even bigger backdoor delivery.

I have not seen anyone praise the system. Maybe in the Reagan era.

Really guy? In favor of status quo? You are participating in the Cain threat driving the Libs crazy correct?

And don't you understand that it is more of the same with Cain?
More of the same on steroids, his "change" is to go further along the path that got you where you are. Cain isn't status quo he is doubleplusstatusquo

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

This is what I don't get either. It's like it would be poison for some people to admit that the government is corrupt and money holds more say than a person's vote. That's the root of the whole protest, but for some reason, people buy into the smears that it's about communism or a bunch of lazy people wanting free stuff.

The people with their hand on the throat of democracy and true capitalism in this country feel threatened by the protests. They can only maintain their grip so long as nobody points it out. When it's pointed out, they put out a story that these people are communists or socialists or whatever in order to divert the attention away from themselves. And the rubes lap it up and spew it back at anyone who dares say that the protesters have a point. Unbelievable.

What unbelievable is how you always go right for the personal insults. "Rubes"? Do you really think your rudeness is going to win you any allies among the middle class? I mean the real middle class, not the union guy who thinks that sweeping the floor ought to provide a "living wage" or the Ivy league college student who has absolutely no conception of what it takes to hold down a job?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

What unbelievable is how you always go right for the personal insults. "Rubes"? Do you really think your rudeness is going to win you any allies among the middle class? I mean the real middle class, not the union guy who thinks that sweeping the floor ought to provide a "living wage" or the Ivy league college student who has absolutely no conception of what it takes to hold down a job?

"Always" Hah. And you "always" mischaracterize and strawman the other person's argument. But I stand by my opinion that anyone against getting Wall Street money out of Congress and bringing back real capitalism and ending corporate welfare is deserving of being called a much nastier name than "rube."

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Really guy? In favor of status quo? You are participating in the Cain threat driving the Libs crazy correct? Honestly, there is something wrong here...at PA Ave. Wall St is like a kid given a lollipop. They ate it all without sharing. What did Washington expect when they handed the lollipop to banks?

My issue is protesting at Wall St make very little sense and you agree as well. However, do these folks believe Wall St is going to do anything? Do you think Obama who embraced the protest is going to do anything? No sir...status quo is what is going to happen.

No they will crumble. Both sides do not want change...

But if this fails, the next iteration will be alot worse. (Look at Rome's versions of the protest)

Only thing that will heal us now is a bloody revolution... As is our right in the Declaration of independance. (need the quote?)It's why we don't have all our guns taken away like other countries...

Sorry, It would truly suck, but money wins right now...And the protestors are not moneyed enough to be represented....

We are not as far apart as it seems. None of us as Americans are.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

So where does "bail out the rich and let them continue to screw everyone" fit into that story? Because I don't know if you were paying attention over the past 3 years or so, but that's kind of what's happened.

The rich have taken from everyone else - they blow up the economy and now are back to doing better than ever, while everyone else gets to pick up the pieces and gets stuck with the tab. Where's that fit into the story?

Why are you okay with money having more say in politics than your vote? Seriously, how is that okay or at all how the Founders intended the country to work. I'd love to hear the explanation, because you're sure defending that system pretty hard.

Now this is where you and I actually agree 100% - the bailouts should not have ever happened. If its a business in a capitalist system, then it should live and die on its own merits. I was just as against Tarp and QE/QE2 as anyone. I was against government bailouts of GM.

We can agree those were wrong. However - GOVERNMENT made those happen. Yes - the wall streeters had lobbyists - but lobbyists don't enact legislation - politicians do! The wall street crowd used the system - it was the politicians who sold us out! Thats why we conservatives say the OWS folks are protesting in the wrong place.

Where we differ - is the solution. Regulate them? Where the hell were Frank and Dodd while this happend? It was their job to be providing oversight - they didn't so now they pass laws to increase oversight. Oversight and regulation doesn't help when the people entrusted to do it are asleep at the wheel. Instead - it simply makes our economy struggle more with the burden. For the OWS crowd the answer is take from the rich. We got shafted - shafting someone else (who committed no crime - just used the system that the politicians put into place) isn't going to fix anything. Ultimately - this is a case of 2 wrong's don't make a right (which OWS would create) and while I can understand the angst of the OWS crowd, they are targeting the wrong people with the wrong solutions.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

And don't you understand that it is more of the same with Cain?
More of the same on steroids, his "change" is to go further along the path that got you where you are. Cain isn't status quo he is doubleplusstatusquo

Yes, but little less steroids than the other running who are part of the status quo. A little less than the establishment. At this point I would vote in Gumby.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Now this is where you and I actually agree 100% - the bailouts should not have ever happened. If its a business in a capitalist system, then it should live and die on its own merits. I was just as against Tarp and QE/QE2 as anyone. I was against government bailouts of GM.

We can agree those were wrong. However - GOVERNMENT made those happen. Yes - the wall streeters had lobbyists - but lobbyists don't enact legislation - politicians do! The wall street crowd used the system - it was the politicians who sold us out! Thats why we conservatives say the OWS folks are protesting in the wrong place.

Where we differ - is the solution. Regulate them? Where the hell were Frank and Dodd while this happend? It was their job to be providing oversight - they didn't so now they pass laws to increase oversight. Oversight and regulation doesn't help when the people entrusted to do it are asleep at the wheel. Instead - it simply makes our economy struggle more with the burden. For the OWS crowd the answer is take from the rich. We got shafted - shafting someone else (who committed no crime - just used the system that the politicians put into place) isn't going to fix anything. Ultimately - this is a case of 2 wrong's don't make a right (which OWS would create) and while I can understand the angst of the OWS crowd, they are targeting the wrong people with the wrong solutions.

The politicians are owned by Wall Street. Whatever changes come, they're only temporary until corporate money corrupts the next crop of politicians and so you have to get at the root of the problem. The United States has become a corporatocracy - government for the donors, by the donors. Campaign finance and lobbying money has so utterly corrupted Congress that elected officials might as well just wear "For Sale" signs around their necks. Heck, even state AG's are getting in on the act. Florida AG Pam Bondi took campaign contributions from financial firms that were at the time under investigation by her office for foreclosure fraud. How screwed up is that?

We need to take back the system where one person, one vote is the way things are done. The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes, but little less steroids than the other running who are part of the status quo. A little less than the establishment. At this point I would vote in Gumby.

Can I ask you to respectfully reconsider changing your vote?
Mr. Hand is running for senate and will fillibuster anything Gumby tries to do. With a firm "smash"

Vote for Lady Gaga and the vice president Pee Wee Herman (Paul Reubens)

I mean, we couldn't be any more of a joke than we are.

And I apologize for accusing you of supporting the status quo, we really aren't far apart IMHO.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Can I ask you to respectfully reconsider changing your vote?
Mr. Hand is running for senate and will fillibuster anything Gumby tries to do. With a firm "smash"

Vote for Lady Gaga and the vice president Pee Wee Herman (Paul Reubens)

I mean, we couldn't be any more of a joke than we are.

And I apologize for accusing you of supporting the status quo, we really aren't far apart IMHO.

Pee Wee does funny things in the darkened theaters. Lady Gaga is much farther out than Pluto.

No reason to apologize. I do support some of the status quo. All be it a small portion. And honestly, I see plenty of injustice every Friday. It starts in columns such as Federal Income Tax, State Tax, MED, SS. MD M4 and 401KE(that really is the sham of all shams) We have been hoodwinked on 401K retirement plans. That is whole other thread.

[AVGWarhawk]

The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation

Never happen. To much money involved for campaigning.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

We need to take back the system where one person, one vote is the way things are done. The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation

Again - we agree - at least to a point. I don't think corporations, pac's, unions or anything (or anyone) else that can't walk into a voting booth and "pull a lever" should be able to give one dime to a politician - or run a political ad.

The problem is - its not just wall street. You going to be willing to bust the unions who put millions of dollars into the hands of politicians when the money came from members who may not support the person? You going to be willing to tell every PAC that exists that they have to shut down?

And lets not forget -taking the money out of wall street will impact us ALL in a very negative way - wny not just put a dividing wall between wall street, unions , PAC's etc? Because the POLITICIANS won't allow it.

The POLITICIANS take the money.
The POLITICIANS make the laws.
The POLITICIANS screw the people.

Seems the root of the problem is the POLITICIANS! And that goes for both "parties"! So why are we all, black, white, yellow, polkadoted, liberal, conservative, OWS, Tea Party, etc - not focusing on where the real problem is?

Because the establishment is pulling the strings on groups like OWS. They are using them to deflect blame away from the politicians. The only reason the left gets more grief is because they have been the ones in power for a little while. Which is why they are using OWS. Its not the OWS'ers fault - they are just following the line they were given - without using critical thinking. Its easier to blame than think.

THINK - and you will see the problem isn't the "left" or the "right" - the problem is those who have used the play off the other side to consilidate their power to the point where people refuse to see the real problem.

RENO!

Re
Elect
No
One

[AVGWarhawk]

The only reason the left gets more grief is because they have been the ones in power for a little while.

Biden admitted today's economic situation is all Obama's(BO administration). They have been in power long enough to acknowledge they own the current economic system.

[CaptainHaplo]

AVG - the thing is "they" do own it - and "they" isn't the democrats any more than its the republicans. BOTH sides have shafted us. This bailout crap started with Bush.

The two parties simply move at different speeds. Now, with the arrival of the OWS and Tea Party, you have the real differences. Socialism or a return to constitutional governance.

Yes - that is a generalization on both - but its still fairly accurate.