Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by yubba

The French revolution sucked, the question is, if we win these elections are these folks that are in power, going to heed the wishes of the people, I don't think they are going to give up anything without a fight and that's scary. This administration is tearing this country apart, in the soul purpose to start a revolution, to start violence in the street, so they can crack down with martial law, this is the only way they can stay in power, what happen is the left couldn't wait they jumped the gun, and showed us who they are, thank god the Tea Party folk have laid back and not entered the fray, the lefts nightmare has come true they have their army on the street, and have an enemy they can't see, it must be unnerving too them, hats off to the silent majority, for you would make fine sub skippers. Now I've heard of a room full of monkeys trying to type fine works a couple of times in here, now is this the same room full of monkeys that typed out Obama care, and his new jobs bill that he is so proud of.

What the hell are you talking about?

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by yubba

The French revolution sucked, the question is, if we win these elections are these folks that are in power, going to heed the wishes of the people, I don't think they are going to give up anything without a fight and that's scary. This administration is tearing this country apart, in the soul purpose to start a revolution, to start violence in the street, so they can crack down with martial law, this is the only way they can stay in power, what happen is the left couldn't wait they jumped the gun, and showed us who they are, thank god the Tea Party folk have laid back and not entered the fray, the lefts nightmare has come true they have their army on the street, and have an enemy they can't see, it must be unnerving too them, hats off to the silent majority, for you would make fine sub skippers. Now I've heard of a room full of monkeys trying to type fine works a couple of times in here, now is this the same room full of monkeys that typed out Obama care, and his new jobs bill that he is so proud of.

I am going to gratify you with a response. I like your passion even if we generally disagree.

This is not a partisan movement. Alot of the views seem that way thanks to the systematic destruction of our government, starting back with Reagan, and "his trickle down bull-mess" aka supply side economics.
The abolishment of Glass-Steagall : Via wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

The repeal of provisions of the Glass***8211;Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm***8211;Leach***8211;Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks.

3 republicans did this...Think about what that means for a minute. Seriously...

"removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks."
And we are paying for it..

Hence savings banks (that hold our money, and use it) were able to merge with their investment divisions, making them... Ready?

TOO BIG TO FAIL, BAIL OUT TIME. BUSH AND OBAMA BOTH HAD A HAND IN IT.

They hate Obama too, most of us realize he got elected with Goldman sachs, and Bank of America money. Just like every other politician.

Of course they seem leftist, it seems like conservatives that have put us here.

Edit: Of course the other side is in on it...Dems are crap too.

Like a Cerberus.

A multi headed dog that guards the gates of hell. No matter what head eats you, you nourish the same monster. (the banks, and corporate sector)

[August]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

For those that doubt this - there is a historical precedent. Richard Nixon was re-elected in a landslide while there was a fervent, vocal and very publicized anti-war and anti-government movement. Yet, the "silent majority" spoke clearly, 47 states went Nixon's way. While some of his actions as president are worthy of scorn and derision, the example in this regard stands.

The vast majority of the country is not willing to see the entire system torn down - violently or otherwise. Until real platforms for significant and REASONABLE change comes from the OWS movement, they will remain a fringe.

This ^

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by August

This ^

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

That could start with some kind of incentive to bring jobs back from China and India.

The severe trade imbalance and the manipulation of the Chinese RMB is another matter, nothing the American Citizen can do anything about.

America is expensive to live in, but corps think we should all be paid like peasants.

Even if you dislike the protestors (your right as a free man, sir) you sorta agree there is a problem. (?)

This is the common ground we all must find as the citizens to change this.

We can go back to hating each other after we fix this.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

The vast majority of the country is not willing to see the entire system torn down - violently or otherwise. Until real platforms for significant and REASONABLE change comes from the OWS movement, they will remain a fringe.

+1
I think things so need to change rather desperatley, but I dont think capitalism needs to be destroyed or replaced, it merely needs to be revised, regulated (with some new cooperate laws) while its a flawed system, its still better than anything else on the Regime table.
A radical and violent revolution should be avoided at all costs as it innevitabley inflicts misery and suffering on innocent people, and I extend 'innocent people' to bankers and law enforcement offcials.
Im not a believer of colateral damage for 'the great of good' its easy to go with that so long as its not your family and loved ones who are caught in the crossfire.

[mookiemookie]

I don't think the solution is to dismantle capitalism, and I'd wager a large percentage of the protesters would say the same thing. But capitalism isn't bailouts. It isn't privatizing the profits and socializing the losses. It isn't where regulatory capture means that businesses write their own rules to their advantage and to the disadvantage of competition or fair trade practices.

To imply that these folks by and large want an end to capitalism is misrepresentation and strawman arguing on a massive scale.

There's fringe elements there, sure. The Tea Party had a lot of fringe elements as well. But the good thing is that it raises these issues in the national consciousness.

The issue with the OWS movement is that, unlike the Tea Party, it lacks a directed purpose. Some protesting are against "greed" - they disagree with TARP and other bailouts (which so does the Tea Party), others disagree with capitalism entirely. Some want serious tax reform, others call for revolution and an overthrow of the entire system. Some advocate peace, while others encourage and partake in violence.

I am afraid that on that part you are very wrong, the tea party ticks all the boxes you say it doesn't, you get the same jumbled and contradictory argements coming out at tea party protests as you get at wall street ones, the many splits within the tea party movement are due to their different agendas and aims, indeed the more nationaly united organised tea party groups are the ones being run by the very people a large number of tea partiers say they are against.

The rest of the post is good though.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by August

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

Agreed 100%, this applies here in the UK too.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

That could start with some kind of incentive to bring jobs back from China and India.

The severe trade imbalance and the manipulation of the Chinese RMB is another matter, nothing the American Citizen can do anything about.

America is expensive to live in, but corps think we should all be paid like peasants.

Even if you dislike the protestors (your right as a free man, sir) you sorta agree there is a problem. (?)

This is the common ground we all must find as the citizens to change this.

We can go back to hating each other after we fix this.

Bringing back the industries from overseas is not a solution. Many republicans have talked about not taxing "repatriated" profits if companies move back here. Its a crock. It won't fix the problem.

But this post got me thinking about what WOULD fix the problem. And its not a single answer. But I will throw it out there for debate - its not a finished idea or even something I would fully support - but differing viewpoints would help me figure out if this would work to solve the equity problems.

So here goes:

1) Get rid of the National Minimum Wage - but read #2 before you think I have gone off the deep end.

2) Allow each State to set its own, statewide Minimum Wage. The reasoning here is simple - each state has its own cost of living. New Jersey, where soopaman2 is - costs (generally speaking) much higher to live in than it does in West Virginia. If each State sets their own, they can adjust as needed to various market factors while more accurately assessing the need of their citizens.

3) Get rid of the idea of regulating business profits - and replace it with:

4) requiring any business larger than what means the SBA definition of a small business (500 people) to institute a 25% profit sharing plan with its employees. The employees then have added incentive while still allowing corporate profits to be reasonably dispursed to investors. The great thing about this - is that investors (once this is instituted) know that its going to happen, and can be part of the solution instead of being the pariah. Plus, it takes a huge arguement away from the unions (and yes - I am not a union fan). However, its a slippery slope - why 25%, why not 50, or 75? See, this needs refining.

5) Accept that basic manufacturing is not going to return. Thus we need to focus on....

6) Innovation. Especially in the Energy field. However, this does not mean throwing good money after bad into the world of "green" energy - it means finding ways to use and improve the technologies and resources we have while still pursuing more sustainable energy sources. Energy independence alone would create a huge number of jobs and a driver to the economy that has been sorely missed.

I could go on, but that is a good start. Thoughts?

[Gerald]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/wo...l?ref=nyregion

[CaptainHaplo]

From link above:

In Chicago, about 175 people were arrested at about 1 a.m. on Sunday after refusing to leave Grant Park before the 11 p.m. closing time, said Officer Laura Kubiak, a spokeswoman for the Chicago Police Department.

The way that is worded - it makes it sound like they were arrested after being asked to leave prior to 11pm. Was it worded that way on purpose due to media bias, or was it merely bad linquistics? Note that the officer is not quoted - but paraphrased....

[Skybird]

On Saturday, a few thousand people demonstrated in Berlin and Frankfurt. In interviews they sounded all a bit diverse and confused over their goals and ideas, and the occasional anti-Nazi protester also was to be seen (identified by the poser he held up) as well as the general left-leaning declaration solidarity with Cuba on anothe rposter, and then some more of this and that.

The whole movement acted under the motto "We are the 99%" (refering to a statistic saying that over one third of the nation's real wealth and assets is owned by just 1% of the population).

But fact is much more than 99% of the German people stayed at home.

Today there was a very good essay on why the EU must be dismantled and rebuild from scratch, and why it is to be regarded as completely misled and ignorrant of realities and nationalist desirtes of different people. It is in German: http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentar...-Maschine.html

I very much agree with the conclusions, and the analysis of the reasons why the EU has failed, and completely so.

I started to fear for my own material situation as well, I am no longer certain about the safety of my future prospects. But nevertheless I would celebrate it if I see the EU being buried, and a new structure of international cooperation between european states gets established. Cooperation in a diverse but cooperating Europe - not in a centralistic and uniform artifical entitity commanded by bureaucrats and aparatchiks without legitimation by the European people, an entity that reminds of things like the Soviet system of party, central committee and general secretary, hollowed-out pseudo-democracy, and the old Comecon the essay mentions. We have become far more a copy of the Soviet system than anybody could like as long as he is no member of the German SED-successor "Die Linke".

A new attempt for cooperation in Europe, based on realism, reason and not on idealistic megalomania and individual narcissism of individual self-displaying actor - preferably to be established without the interference of the current pesterous caste of politicians, bankers and industrial bosses - these, I honestely think, should be canned alltogether and dumped at the deepest place of the ocean we can find. Merkel, Ackermann, Berlusconi, Sarkozy, and all the many others - to me they are all the same sick breed.

The way that is worded - it makes it sound like they were arrested after being asked to leave prior to 11pm.

They were.
They were asked to leave before the park closed, two hours after the park closed they were arrested for not leaving before it closed. nothing wrong with the wording or linguistics.
the only confusion could be if you take the 11pm closing Saturday and think that it is after 1am arrests on Sunday.
Which would make the protests today not yesterday by reversing the calendar or make the arrests a week after the warning to leave.

[Jimbuna]

It would have been more accurate if the motto had of been "We are a part of the 99%" then.

[CaptainHaplo]

Yea it might have been just my confusion. Blasted flu/cold or whatever has me a bit foggy.

Tribesman - what are your thoughts on the points I raised above. While I know we often disagree - when we stay on subject good info flows.