History of the Vietnam war for people with attention deficit disorder - Page 4

Diopos · 10-15-11, 03:42 AM

It is simple.

"Never fight a land war in Asia".

I think it was Douglas MacArthur who said that (or something similar).

The only thing that maybe added for clarification purposes is "wherever in Asia". Say Afganistan, for example.

.

Dowly · 10-15-11, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

[...]if we knew then what we know now about the stuff we wouldn't have used it.

I must confess, my knowledge about Agent Orange is very limited, so I had to
resort to some research. But, it seems that while the effects weren't known
completely, there were suspicions and even a note to the US government from
the company that manufactured 2,4,5-T in 1952 that if overheated during the
manufacturing process it would produce TCDD i.e. the really bad stuff. Today
we know that TCDD was the stuff that caused most of the health issues and
deaths, so for whatever reason said note was ignored or someone balls'd up.

In 1969 it was told to the public that 2,4,5-T indeed had that really bad stuff in it,
yet the sprayings continued for two more years.

Now, I do agree with you that it can't be directly compared to the intentional
gassings by Soviets, but someone made the decision to use AO on not only
forests but farmlands which usually are pretty near to villages and such.
And by doing so, caused some pretty severe problems to the local population
in the form of famine, which even was the desired effect of the sprayings
(to deny VC from possibly food supply and force locals out of the area).

So, the bottomline is that eventho AO wasn't mean't to kill anyone, it did.
And trying to justify it by saying "we didn't know" isn't entirely correct. Even
if you forget TCDD for a moment, "there was already a large body of
scientific evidence linking 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D to serious negative
health effects and ecological damage."

Now if you'll excuse me, I go and get wasted.

August · 10-15-11, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Mentioned they may be, but not in any way directed at their contribution to the conflict (outside the mention of Soviet influence).

Each of these countires had people on the ground in the conflict all making a contribution to the effort for one side or another. Reading this account one would assume only American and Vietnamese forces were involved, which they certainly were not.

But to add every detail would have made it book length and I don't think that was what the author was shooting for.

Sailor Steve · 10-15-11, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

You're probably right but then again is it really "lying" when one believes what they are saying?

A good point. Perhaps "revisionist" was the wrong word to use. I just get my back up when I read something that is completely one-sided, and this certainly distorts a lot it, so I would say it was indeed revised.

I came back and wasn't spat on, or reviled. I had my own questions and ended up with the beliefs I still hold. As always, I'm not certain that I'm right, but when I read a "history" like this one I just feel like fightin'.

August · 10-15-11, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A good point. Perhaps "revisionist" was the wrong word to use. I just get my back up when I read something that is completely one-sided, and this certainly distorts a lot it, so I would say it was indeed revised.

I came back and wasn't spat on, or reviled. I had my own questions and ended up with the beliefs I still hold. As always, I'm not certain that I'm right, but when I read a "history" like this one I just feel like fightin'.

When did you come back Steve? Pop ended his tour in the summer of 67.

Sailor Steve · 10-15-11, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

When did you come back Steve? Pop ended his tour in the summer of 67.

July 1970. I was actually only on station for about three months, being flown over and joining my ship in March of that year.

When I met Tarjak in Houston we got to talking, and it turns out that his dad served on HMAS Melbourne, which was lead ship of a task group we did some exersizes with. Small world.

August · 10-15-11, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

July 1970. I was actually only on station for about three months, being flown over and joining my ship in March of that year.

When I met Tarjak in Houston we got to talking, and it turns out that his dad served on HMAS Melbourne, which was lead ship of a task group we did some exersizes with. Small world.

Sure is. Too bad you guys couldn't make it up here last year. I'd have enjoyed meeting you.

Sailor Steve · 10-15-11, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Sure is. Too bad you guys couldn't make it up here last year. I'd have enjoyed meeting you.

Yeah, I'm still hating the VA housing facility I was in for not telling me until the last minute that I couldn't go. I even spent $200 on bus tickets that I couldn't get back.

Tchocky · 10-15-11, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Yet I know for a fact that my father had dog feces thrown at him upon his return from his tour in Vietnam so there was at least one attack on a US Veteran.

I don't doubt it, August. But the kind of language this guy is using is not that associated with calm factual analysis and explication.

August · 10-15-11, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I don't doubt it, August. But the kind of language this guy is using is not that associated with calm factual analysis and explication.

Oh i'm so sorry!

I thought I was posting one mans wry perspective to my friends on an internet forum that I frequent, not publishing my historical thesis for peer review.

My bad!

Jimbuna · 10-15-11, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yeah, I'm still hating the VA housing facility I was in for not telling me until the last minute that I couldn't go. I even spent $200 on bus tickets that I couldn't get back.

You never told me that...I could have organised a stretched limo for you if you'd only said

Sailor Steve · 10-15-11, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

You never told me that...I could have organised a stretched limo for you if you'd only said

To Massachussetts?

Jimbuna · 10-15-11, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

To Massachussetts?

Hold on I'll give Mr Wolfrang a call

TarJak · 10-15-11, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

But to add every detail would have made it book length and I don't think that was what the author was shooting for.

But to omit any mention that other nations were involved is naive at best and biased at worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Sure is. Too bad you guys couldn't make it up here last year. I'd have enjoyed meeting you.

would have loved to have made it over for that meet. I enjoyed 2008 immensely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Hold on I'll give Mr Wolfrang a call

I doubt the limo industry would survive another hijacking like your last escapade.

Jimbuna · 10-15-11, 04:21 PM

Hopefully we'll get the opportunity to find out

10-15-11, 03:42 AM	#46
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	It is simple. "Never fight a land war in Asia". I think it was Douglas MacArthur who said that (or something similar). The only thing that maybe added for clarification purposes is "wherever in Asia". Say Afganistan, for example. . __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!

10-15-11, 04:21 PM	#60
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,595 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Hopefully we'll get the opportunity to find out __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!