Why the Submarine is the unsung hero at Midway -- true story.

[soopaman2]

You almost have to take multiple testimonies from differring sides and draw your own reality based on the events during and the overall outcomes.

I'm sure Nimitz and Yamamoto have differing opinions on why Midway turned out the way it did, but the overall outcome is all that mattered,

The losses were incurred on the warships and aircrews and not so much on the subs, so their (surface vessels) roles were magnified in relation to the subs.

[nikimcbee]

The USN always had problems with PR that were deeply institutionalized from the top down

Funny you should mention that. I read in a book about the USS Pampanito about an account of the " Take her down" action with the Growler and H Gilmore's death. In that book, a crewmember mentioned that how it is potrayed in the official story, Gilmore cries taker her down and he dies, but in the book it says he was killed out-right and none of that happened like the Navy potrayed it. I had never heard this before except in this book (from a crew member who served on the Growler(?) )


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Gilmore

Simultaneously, the Japanese crew unleashed a burst of machine gun fire at Growler’s bridge, killing the junior officer of the deck and a lookout,[4] while wounding Gilmore himself and two other men. “Clear the bridge!” Gilmore ordered as he struggled to hang on to a frame. As the rest of the bridge party dropped down the hatch into the conning tower, the executive officer, Lieutenant Commander Arnold Schade — shaken by the impact and dazed by his own fall into the control room — waited expectantly for his captain to appear. Instead from above came the shouted command: “Take her down!” Realizing that he could not get himself below in time if the ship were to escape, Gilmore chose to make the supreme sacrifice for his shipmates. Schade hesitated briefly — then followed his captain’s last order and submerged the crippled ship.

[nikimcbee]

However, since the Japanese couldn't see any way of keeping the US from getting involved if they descended on British and Dutch colonies they went ahead and including knocking out the U.S. Pacific Fleet on their war plans. A poor move if Yamamoto endorsed doing it. But then I always thought he was overrated anyway.

It would have been interesting if Yamamoto had lost out to the "old guard" of the IJN and they used Battleships to attack PH. If i recall, the Yamato was brand new. She would have eaten our fleet for lunch (and want seconds).


On a side note, I wish somebody would make a movie about the midget subs there. That has always been my favorite aspect of PH.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

If i recall, the Yamato was brand new. She would have eaten our fleet for lunch (and want seconds).

The only battleships in the Pearl Harbor strike force were Hiei and Kirishima. Yamato wasn't even in service, being commissioned into service on the 16 of December.

It wouldn't have mattered, because almost all the US battleships were powered down and couldn't have used their main batteries.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The only battleships in the Pearl Harbor strike force were Hiei and Kirishima. Yamato wasn't even in service, being commissioned into service on the 16 of December.

Even worse she wasn't deemed operational until May 27th, 1942 due to delays and setbacks in training her crew, particularly on the new 18.1 inch guns.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Even worse she wasn't deemed operational until May 27th, 1942 due to delays and setbacks in training her crew, particularly on the new 18.1 inch guns.

I think this is a good time to mention that the super-ship has always been a myth. Yamato would almost certainly have had no trouble at all with any of the battleships present at Pearl, but seven of them, even though most dated to World War One, would probably have not boded well even for a ship that new and powerful.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I think this is a good time to mention that the super-ship has always been a myth.

Yamato was always an eye-catcher but her reputation never lived up to the myth. In many respects her size worked against her. In late 1942, the IJN toyed with idea of sending her down to the Solomons to bombard Henderson Field on Guadalcanal but couldn't make it work due to fuel and ammo constraints. You could have Yamato parked in a developed base like Truk, but if you send her out on one Tokyo Express run to Henderson field staging out of Simpson Harbor in Rabaul, she with her consorts would burn as much bunker grade fuel as the Combined Fleet would be allocated in a month and it took multiple runs to get anything done. Given the logistical strains on Japan's merchant fleet on just keeping the four old Kongo class battleships at Rabaul fully replenished in what had been a colonial backwater port before the war was proving a headache. Plus, there were probably not proper facilities for reloading Yamato's massive 18.1 inch guns, each round weighing 3,200 pounds. The Japanese were not adept at setting at up new logistical staging areas to support the consolidation of new territories. In terms of base construction and improvement it took them years to do what Allied forces could do in a month. The result was that in the primitive South Pacific a "super-ship" like Yamato was often constrained in where she could go and what she could do.