Iran to build aircraft carrier! - Page 3

kraznyi_oktjabr · 10-01-11, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicstix

It's going to be a giant moving target *anyway.* The Iranians' ASW capability is more or less nonexistent. Judging by the last time they started something with the US Navy, their air defense capabilities are nonexistent, and they don't have enough surface combatants to even put together a viable CVBG.

I most honorably disagree. For example their Jamaran class "destroyers" carry 4 SM-1 copies, dual-purpose 76 mm gun, Bofors 40 mm copy and two 20 mm Oerlikons. That is truly an area air defence capability - rivals even Britons Type 45.

magicstix · 10-01-11, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I most honorably disagree. For example their Jamaran class "destroyers" carry 4 SM-1 copies, dual-purpose 76 mm gun, Bofors 40 mm copy and two 20 mm Oerlikons. That is truly an area air defence capability - rivals even Britons Type 45.

And how many Jamarans do they have?

Besides, Jamarans are basically just a minor upgrade of the Alvand class FFs to carry SM-1s, and we know how effective the Alvand class is from Op. Praying Mantis...

Jimbuna · 10-01-11, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I most honorably disagree. For example their Jamaran class "destroyers" carry 4 SM-1 copies, dual-purpose 76 mm gun, Bofors 40 mm copy and two 20 mm Oerlikons. That is truly an area air defence capability - rivals even Britons Type 45.

I know which vessel I'd rather have in my fleet and it doesn't begin with the letter 'J'

mapuc · 10-01-11, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I know which vessel I'd rather have in my fleet and it doesn't begin with the letter 'J'

It remind me of an conversation I had with a fellow, during my military duty, in the swedish navy

He was, among many others in the swedish navy, bragging about how well the swedish vessel was in defending it self, in airial combat.

So I said to him. No swedish ship in the navy, have been truly tested. No one have ever been in an full scale war, where there's not one missil coming your way, about every 2-3 minutes. No I'm talking about 5-10 missil coming your way at almost same time.

To test if our vessel is that good we, should try it out.

Take an old warship, put a 40 mm canon, a 57 mm canon, some radars and other stuff, make it remote, put it into the sea.
From a given distance, some of our warship fires some of their missils and then we can see if this old warship can survive this massive attack.

Markus

Gerald · 10-01-11, 07:51 PM

You are entitled to certain factors, but a little of note, is that Swedish marine units have been fully tested, in and against active enemies, but as you say, we have not been in any war,it is quite right.

TLAM Strike · 10-01-11, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

You are entitled to certain factors, but a little of note, is that Swedish marine units have been fully tested, in and against active enemies, but as you say, we have not been in any war,it is quite right.

You not fully tested until they've taken a shot at you.

US Navy: Combat proven since 1775

Gerald · 10-01-11, 08:25 PM

I have no opportunity to comment on these kinds of pictures Mr. B, just because they're not fair, but some vessels have suffered you know it, but not those that you now show, which belongs to U.S. and not SWE.

TLAM Strike · 10-01-11, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

I have no opportunity to comment on these kinds of pictures Mr. B, just because they're not fair, but some vessels have suffered you know it, but not those that you now show, which belongs to U.S. and not SWE.

If I had photos of Swedish navy ships that have seen combat I would post them, but its hard to find photos of their last combat engagement.

Cohaagen · 10-01-11, 11:59 PM

The Swedish Navy was kicking people's teeth in and dominating the Baltic at a time when most Americans were busy dropping dead from smallpox, making mud pies, and had yet to float anything bigger than a sweetcorn turd.

Also, it's probably not a good idea to boast of your battle prowess using a picture of the USS Tripoli of all things, the minesweeping flagship which managed to get itself...um, mined. The story behind those clearance operations makes for interesting reading - two ships seriously damaged due to incompetence and institutional arrogance on the part of the USN, a refusal to acknowledge that other allied navies knew far more about minehunting, and an initial ops plan that was openly described as "suicidal" by the RN Commodore attending.

magicstix · 10-02-11, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cohaagen

The Swedish Navy was kicking people's teeth in and dominating the Baltic at a time when most Americans were busy dropping dead from smallpox, making mud pies, and had yet to float anything bigger than a sweetcorn turd.

K, so what have they done lately?

kraznyi_oktjabr · 10-02-11, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicstix

K, so what have they done lately?

If I remember correctly, in 1980s they dispensed their destroyer force as there was apparently no need for such thing as ASW. Lately they have been building corvettes which were supposed to carry 57 mm, SSMs, SAMs, ASW torpedoes and ASW rockets. Swedish government as cost consicious opted to delete SAMs and ASW rockets from design. Therefore those magnificent ships' defence against aircraft and missiles rest solely on countermeasures and its 57 mm gun.

Finland is - despite its location in continental Europe - from trade point of view an island, most trade comes and leaves via sea. I have very little faith to Finnish Navy's capability to protect commercial shipping, but I have even less faith to Swedish Royal Navy's capability to do it. Sorry Swedes, you have great sub force but its not really great for commerce protection.

Jimbuna · 10-02-11, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

It remind me of an conversation I had with a fellow, during my military duty, in the swedish navy

He was, among many others in the swedish navy, bragging about how well the swedish vessel was in defending it self, in airial combat.

So I said to him. No swedish ship in the navy, have been truly tested. No one have ever been in an full scale war, where there's not one missil coming your way, about every 2-3 minutes. No I'm talking about 5-10 missil coming your way at almost same time.

To test if our vessel is that good we, should try it out.

Take an old warship, put a 40 mm canon, a 57 mm canon, some radars and other stuff, make it remote, put it into the sea.
From a given distance, some of our warship fires some of their missils and then we can see if this old warship can survive this massive attack.

Markus

Yes...that would be one way.

Gerald · 10-02-11, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

If I had photos of Swedish navy ships that have seen combat I would post them, but its hard to find photos of their last combat engagement.

Should you have pictures from today, or from the past? You must always rely on trusted sources, rather than what is available for public view, in other words, scratch a little harder on the surface and you get the result you want, (I thought never, I would leave such a comment to B....

ever....... maybe too much time off, over there)

......

Jimbuna · 10-02-11, 09:59 AM

Come on then....let's see those photos from the Gulf War

nikimcbee · 10-02-11, 10:18 AM

Don't you mean: "Iran is building a large target?"

So who will sink it first? Air Force or Navy.

10-01-11, 07:51 PM	#35
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	You are entitled to certain factors, but a little of note, is that Swedish marine units have been fully tested, in and against active enemies, but as you say, we have not been in any war,it is quite right. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

10-01-11, 08:25 PM	#37
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	I have no opportunity to comment on these kinds of pictures Mr. B, just because they're not fair, but some vessels have suffered you know it, but not those that you now show, which belongs to U.S. and not SWE. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

10-02-11, 09:59 AM	#44
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,357 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Come on then....let's see those photos from the Gulf War __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-02-11, 10:18 AM	#45
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Don't you mean: "Iran is building a large target?" So who will sink it first? Air Force or Navy. __________________

10-01-11, 11:59 PM	#39
Cohaagen Frogman Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: UK Posts: 296 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The Swedish Navy was kicking people's teeth in and dominating the Baltic at a time when most Americans were busy dropping dead from smallpox, making mud pies, and had yet to float anything bigger than a sweetcorn turd. Also, it's probably not a good idea to boast of your battle prowess using a picture of the USS Tripoli of all things, the minesweeping flagship which managed to get itself...um, mined. The story behind those clearance operations makes for interesting reading - two ships seriously damaged due to incompetence and institutional arrogance on the part of the USN, a refusal to acknowledge that other allied navies knew far more about minehunting, and an initial ops plan that was openly described as "suicidal" by the RN Commodore attending.