Doubts about Sonar, Radio, Radar and TAI

[Jamesphillip]

Hello there mates, skippers, captains
First I'd like to introduce myself, I am new around here, just bought the game about 1 week ago, and been playing everyday since.
So I have some questions about the game. I've already been looking for these answers around in the forums but would like some of you guys to answer as well and give your opinion.

1 - How does the hydrophone / radio work? Do you need to be using them to detect more ships more easily and often, or you can leave it alone and the radio/sound guy will find them easily as well? Since I've been doing the British Supplies mission and rarely seen a Merchant ship, leave alone a convoy, what's the best way to patrol an area? Always at surface or submerge a while? Circle around a large area or a smaller one?

2 - What is the best way to approach a warship and then evade them? I caught 3 destroyers patrolling and got behind their backs, but couldn't get the angle right without being at their backs. Anyways I managed to sink two of them and then submerged into the deep and got away. Is that the best way to leave the area? Just submerge and hope for the best?

3 - What does the orange circles, red semi-circles and black circles around enemy ships mean in TAI? I've been looking for a legend in the forums and googling it, but found nothing about it. Does black circles mean visual range? And what about the other two?

4 - I've been playing without any mods, and do not like the game to be 100% realistic, been playing at 87% realism, with external view (just for eye candy) and map contact updates, but I would like to play without map contacts, altough that can be hard and most of the mods add a whole lot of things that I don't want to add to my game, and many mods don't have a full description of the mod itself in the forums page (believe me I've been looking around the forums.) So what are the best mods for a begginer like me without adding too much realism to the game?

5 - Is there anyway to have 2 or more data in the TDC? Or it's only possible to have one target in TDC? I caught a large convoy in their backs, manage to sneak around to the middle-rear and had to shoot one by one, introducing data ship by ship after firing a torpedo, it would be much better if I could target 2 or 3 ships at once. I don't have much practice so I use Pause a lot, but I see that as cheating and I'm looking to stamp this out.

6 - What's the best/realistic range to engage a ship? 500m? 1000m? 2500m? Sometimes it happens that I can't hit a warship because they evade my torpedoes at the very last second, what can I do to avoid that?
Is it suicidal to engage 7 or 8 ships and then submerge into the deep?

7 - I've noticed that everyone in the sub doesn't react to the environment, doesn't matter if I'm being attacked, crash diving or attacking someone, everyone just seems to be standing there without doing nothing and reacting to nothing. Is there any mod that changes this?

8 - When does the radar become avaiable? It's December 1939 and still no good.

9 - Is there any way to control the rudder by clicking or setting the rudder to X degrees, instead of having to click 100 times and having to listen to "rudder 5 degrees to starboard" a zillion times as well?

Thanks for the help

[phil82]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Hello there mates, skippers, captains
First I'd like to introduce myself, I am new around here, just bought the game about 1 week ago, and been playing everyday since.

Hello and welcome,

I can help with most of your questions, although I'm fairly new myself. First, you are going to want mods, but I'll say more about that below.

This is the link to the guides thread in the SH 4 forum, whenever I've said below to look for a guide this is where you'll find it:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

1 - How does the hydrophone / radio work? Do you need to be using them to detect more ships more easily and often, or you can leave it alone and the radio/sound guy will find them easily as well?

The radio is just for communicating with base, it'll tell you when a contact has been spotted by a friendly ship (usually on the other side of the map ), other than that don't worry about it at the moment. The hydrophone is great for finding ships when you're underwater, the main advantage of it is you can find ships before you can see them (although from what I understand its buggered in the stock game). Once you get it working the sonar man will do a good job of giving you contact reports.

Since I've been doing the British Supplies mission and rarely seen a Merchant ship, leave alone a convoy, what's the best way to patrol an area? Always at surface or submerge a while? Circle around a large area or a smaller one?

This is a really big topic, if you look in the SH 4 forum there is a great sticky with loads of guides which will tell you everything you need to know.

In short though:

When hunting I prefer to stay on the surface in good weather and go to periscope depth at night and in bad weather (when visibility is bad). Stick close to your patrol area, usually they are situated on shipping lanes and give the best chance of finding a target. If you really can't find a target then try waiting 20km or so outside of enemy ports, ships follow real paths in silent hunter so most of the traffic is concentrated around ports.

When you do spot a ship you should dive to periscope depth and mark the ships position on your map. Then use the stop watch to mark off some time (I use five minutes) and then take another position mark. Form here you can calculate the ships course, by drawing a line between the marks, and its speed, by measuring the distance between the marks and calculating the speed using one of the handy speed charts (which may not be in stock... thats why you need mods!), or by knowing how to cnvert metres per minute into knots (which I don't).

Once you have the targets course and speed you can intercept him. You know where he's going and when he's going to be there, so you just need to get there first. There are plenty of guides that show you exactly how to do this so I wont go into any more detail.

2 - What is the best way to approach a warship and then evade them? I caught 3 destroyers patrolling and got behind their backs, but couldn't get the angle right without being at their backs. Anyways I managed to sink two of them and then submerged into the deep and got away. Is that the best way to leave the area? Just submerge and hope for the best?

How do Porcupines have sex...CAREFULLY

Joking aside, destroyers are designed to find and kill submarines, they can also run faster than you, so two kills is phenominal for a newbie! I actually asked this question in the SH 4 forum not long ago, look for a thread called 'evading destroyers' there is loads of info in there.

3 - What does the orange circles, red semi-circles and black circles around enemy ships mean in TAI? I've been looking for a legend in the forums and googling it, but found nothing about it. Does black circles mean visual range? And what about the other two?

Can't help you with this I'm afraid as I've never played stock, I upgraded from SH 4 recently so I started modding the game straight away.

So what are the best mods for a begginer like me without adding too much realism to the game?

This is really a personal thing, however at the very least you want the TDW_UI mod. It adds so many things that should have been in the stock game that its basically essential. You'll also want TDW's SH 5 patcher, which fixes the hydrophone station. Those are the only absolute essentials although a couple of very nice mods are:

Open Horizons 2 - Improves the campaign, well worth a look.
Dynamic environments - A graphical overhaul.

I just took the mod list from mia389's signature and picked the ones I liked the look of. You'll also need JSGME to install most of the mods.

5 - Is there anyway to have 2 or more data in the TDC? Or it's only possible to have one target in TDC?

Nope, sorry. But as you get used to the game you'll figure out how to set up attacks without using the TDC, once again you can find a guide in the SH 4 forum for this stuff

6 - What's the best/realistic range to engage a ship? 500m? 1000m? 2500m? Sometimes it happens that I can't hit a warship because they evade my torpedoes at the very last second, what can I do to avoid that?

Generally speaking you want to get as close as possible (although anything below approx 400m and your torpedo wont arm), warships are harder because they can spot you easier and are always on the lookout for torpedos, so it's a trade off between getting close enough that they can't get out of the way of your torpedos and staying far enough out so that they don't spot your periscope. For me the perfect attack position is about 800m out and at 90 degrees angle to the enemies course, but really whe you are up against a task force you have to take what you can get, finding the best position is a big part of the game.

Is it suicidal to engage 7 or 8 ships and then submerge into the deep?

If you mean trying to take out 7 ships at once then wow, you sir are crazy But if you mean taking on a task force and just attacking the big, juicy targets then no. Although it is hard. Still, if you dont spend a couple of hours getting depth charged every now and then, you're not taking enough risks.

7 - I've noticed that everyone in the sub doesn't react to the environment, doesn't matter if I'm being attacked, crash diving or attacking someone, everyone just seems to be standing there without doing nothing and reacting to nothing. Is there any mod that changes this?

As far as I know there aren't any mods that fix this, just pretend that they're all too scared to move.

8 - When does the radar become avaiable? It's December 1939 and still no good.

No idea, sorry.

9 - Is there any way to control the rudder by clicking or setting the rudder to X degrees, instead of having to click 100 times and having to listen to "rudder 5 degrees to starboard" a zillion times as well?

TDW_UI mod should help with this.

Hope that helps

[Jamesphillip]

Thanks a lot for your help!

I'm thinking about using TW_UI, Open Horizons 2, Dynamic Environments, Realistic Ammo for AA & Cannon plus Critical Torpedo Hits. Thing is I'm afraid that mods will conflict. I'm using the JSGME tool.

[0rpheus]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Hello there mates, skippers, captains
First I'd like to introduce myself, I am new around here, just bought the game about 1 week ago, and been playing everyday since.
So I have some questions about the game. I've already been looking for these answers around in the forums but would like some of you guys to answer as well and give your opinion.

1 - How does the hydrophone / radio work? Do you need to be using them to detect more ships more easily and often, or you can leave it alone and the radio/sound guy will find them easily as well? Since I've been doing the British Supplies mission and rarely seen a Merchant ship, leave alone a convoy, what's the best way to patrol an area? Always at surface or submerge a while? Circle around a large area or a smaller one?

2 - What is the best way to approach a warship and then evade them? I caught 3 destroyers patrolling and got behind their backs, but couldn't get the angle right without being at their backs. Anyways I managed to sink two of them and then submerged into the deep and got away. Is that the best way to leave the area? Just submerge and hope for the best?

3 - What does the orange circles, red semi-circles and black circles around enemy ships mean in TAI? I've been looking for a legend in the forums and googling it, but found nothing about it. Does black circles mean visual range? And what about the other two?

4 - I've been playing without any mods, and do not like the game to be 100% realistic, been playing at 87% realism, with external view (just for eye candy) and map contact updates, but I would like to play without map contacts, altough that can be hard and most of the mods add a whole lot of things that I don't want to add to my game, and many mods don't have a full description of the mod itself in the forums page (believe me I've been looking around the forums.) So what are the best mods for a begginer like me without adding too much realism to the game?

5 - Is there anyway to have 2 or more data in the TDC? Or it's only possible to have one target in TDC? I caught a large convoy in their backs, manage to sneak around to the middle-rear and had to shoot one by one, introducing data ship by ship after firing a torpedo, it would be much better if I could target 2 or 3 ships at once. I don't have much practice so I use Pause a lot, but I see that as cheating and I'm looking to stamp this out.

6 - What's the best/realistic range to engage a ship? 500m? 1000m? 2500m? Sometimes it happens that I can't hit a warship because they evade my torpedoes at the very last second, what can I do to avoid that?
Is it suicidal to engage 7 or 8 ships and then submerge into the deep?

7 - I've noticed that everyone in the sub doesn't react to the environment, doesn't matter if I'm being attacked, crash diving or attacking someone, everyone just seems to be standing there without doing nothing and reacting to nothing. Is there any mod that changes this?

8 - When does the radar become avaiable? It's December 1939 and still no good.

9 - Is there any way to control the rudder by clicking or setting the rudder to X degrees, instead of having to click 100 times and having to listen to "rudder 5 degrees to starboard" a zillion times as well?

Thanks for the help

Phil's done an admirable job already so I'll just try to fill in the blanks:

1. To manually activate/use the hydrophone, click on the hydrophone station and use Home/End keys to rotate it (as Phil said, this is where you'll need the .exe patcher as the stock keys will make it move too far in either direction, making it hard to retain the contact). Bear in mind that the first hydrophone you get is mounted on the sides of the sub, with a small angle of 'deaf' area in front/behind, but will work while surfaced. Later versions offer 360 degree coverage, but will only work underwater - so adapt your patrol styles to suit. Also bear in mind that the hydro has more range the deeper you go, to max range at about 30 metres, and is affected by your own engine noise to an extent.

But yeah. you can leave it alone and the sonar guy will find targets, which will appear as black/blue lines on the nav map. Phil's description of hunting is spot on - I'll only add that to calculate the target's speed manually, as he describes, simply place one mark on the TAI at the bow of the target, start the stopwatch, then place another mark exactly 3 minutes 15 seconds later, also at the bow. Divide the range between the two by 100 = speed.


2. Destroyers are dangerous, even in stock. Shallow waters are also dangerous. If you've not got 150m of depth to use, it's shallow! Enemy Destroyer AI works as described in the link below:

http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

Basically get deep and get quiet. Activate silent running, keep engine rpms below 50 (use the rpm gauge in the conning tower or engine room, and the 'advanced' speed control (hold shift I think) to select 0.25 knots or so) and get under their sonar. Since you don't know how deep they go, the deeper the better - and it'll only get harder the later in the war you get. If a Destryoer goes right over you on a DC run, slam it to ahead full for a few seconds to get out of the way of the depth charges, then drop to 50 rpms again.

As a general rule, unless it's a high-value target like a Carrier or Battleship, stick to the merchants - and even they'll fire back if they catch you on the surface. When attacking, try to get in front of the target (known as an 'end around') and let them cross your path, so you've got plenty of time to set up the shot & avoid escort screens.

3.

Black circles = visual range.
Orange circles = passive (listening) sonar range (surfaced/submerged). If you're in this zone and making noise, they can probably hear you.
Red semi-circles - active (pinging) sonar range. See AI link for info.

4. Don't worry about mods adding too much realism. With TDWs UI mod you can swap between manual and arcade (numbers on TAI torpedo track) targeting at will, mid game. Mia has an excellent list, I've also got one in my sig, with links to the exe patcher, D3D antilag for better fps etc. Magnum Opus, Open Horizons campaign mod and Dynamic Environment are all good choices - as for the rest, see what you like and what you don't! Use JSGME and you can swap them in/out as required.

6. 1000m or less is 'optimum' range for a torpedo shot, at 90 degree angle to the target. Destroyers are very fast and will often evade torpedoes even at ranges under 1000m - and firing on them will nearly always alert them to your presence - so attempt it at your own risk 7 or 8 targets in a convoy very early war is quite possible (go in with the torps, then with the deck gun), but this will only work for the first few months of 1939 - after that Merchants start arming themselves and deck-gun actions against convoys become very risky. Even single merchants can put a big hole in the pressure hull if they get a lucky shot. But 'submerging into the deep' is your best way of getting away, nearly every time. Depending on the weather/time, you can sometimes get away on the surface if you're quick - but underwater is safer.

7.

There's a mod called 'more crew' by Paris_England in the mods section. It'll add more crew, and I think some more animations. You'll also see more overall animations in Magnum Opus, because it has another mod (Mighty Fine Crew Mod) incorporated. But as a rule, this is something that's still being modded, so progress is limited at this stage.

8. I forget when the first Radar becomes available, but not until at least 1940.

*goes to check*

http://www.uboat.net/technical/radar.htm

Aha. Above link is handy. First radar is the Fumo in 1941. It only has a small angle, you won't get a 360 degree one until even later. If you see a plane, crash dive - don't risk it!

9. As Phil says, TDWs New UIs with TDC 6.7.0 allows you to swap between a heading dial and a rudder angle dial. Of all the mods, it's the most essential.

I'm thinking about using TW_UI, Open Horizons 2, Dynamic Environments, Realistic Ammo for AA & Cannon plus Critical Torpedo Hits. Thing is I'm afraid that mods will conflict. I'm using the JSGME tool.

That's fine. Some things to remember when installing mods.

File structure is important - the first folder in a mod folder should be a folder called 'data'. If this isn't the case, then the mod itself is often found deeper in the folders. Dynamic Environment is a good example of this; it has many different variations within the main mod pack - it's those you need to move to your main mod folder and activate (for example, Dynamic Environment Basemod (normal) V2.1 - first folder in this is called 'data').

Install order is also important. Remember that whatever you install later will overwrite any earlier version that uses the same files (e.g if you had two different wave mods, you'd only see the effect of the last one). For the mods you list above, install in this order:

TDWs New UIs with TDC 6.7.0
Open Horizons II (Full, or Base + Environment depending on your preference)
Dynamic Environment basemod (normal, or your preference)
Dynamic Environment optional mods (your preference)
Realistic Ammo
Critical Hits


Also recommended, if you want a little extra oomph, to fit with your theoretical order above:

Magnum Opus (general megamod with better damage screens, no splash intro, no silly yellow bubbles etc)
Magnum Opus Patch 2 (check file structure on this one and make sure first folder is 'data' as above, or merge files with the main Magnum Opus)
IRAI (better, harder AI with editable difficulty )
FX_Update 0.19 (better in game FX, explosions, bailing out pilots, distress flares etc)
TDWs New UIs with TDC
Open Horizons II (Full, or Base + Environment depending on your preference)
Dynamic Environment basemod (your preference)
Dynamic Environment optional mods (your preference, recommended list in my sig)
Realistic Ammo
Critical Hits
KZS Hull Wetness
Vorkapitan's Enhanced Caustics


Shout if you get stuck & welcome to the site!

[Jamesphillip]

Many thanks for your help! As soon as I get home I'm going to try it. (I'm at work slacking off ehehe )

So to have the mods in that particular order it means I have to "install" the first one on the list first or the last one on the list first?

[0rpheus]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Many thanks for your help! As soon as I get home I'm going to try it. (I'm at work slacking off ehehe )

So to have the mods in that particular order it means I have to "install" the first one on the list first or the last one on the list first?

[First]TDWs New UIs with TDC 6.7.0
Open Horizons II (Full, or Base + Environment depending on your preference)
Dynamic Environment basemod (normal, or your preference)
Dynamic Environment optional mods (your preference)
Realistic Ammo
Critical Hits [Last]

The exe patcher and D3D antilag do not use JSGME - follow the instructions included in each.

[Jamesphillip]

Once again, thanks for all your help. I have the following mods:

Critical Hits Torpedo & Gun
Dynamic Environment
Equipment Upgrades
FX Update 0.0.19
IRAI 1.0.0
KZS Hull Wetness
Lifeboats 2.0
NewUIs TDC 6.7.0 (and several other add-ons)
Open Horizons II
Real Sink 1.0
Realistic Ammo Amount

I have the mods folder in JSGME and all this mods installed there (Checked and all mods start at folder Data). I use JSGME to enable the mods but when I start the game I see no differences. Do I have to start a new campaign or no need to?

[0rpheus]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Once again, thanks for all your help. I have the following mods:

Critical Hits Torpedo & Gun
Dynamic Environment
Equipment Upgrades
FX Update 0.0.19
IRAI 1.0.0
KZS Hull Wetness
Lifeboats 2.0
NewUIs TDC 6.7.0 (and several other add-ons)
Open Horizons II
Real Sink 1.0
Realistic Ammo Amount

I have the mods folder in JSGME and all this mods installed there (Checked and all mods start at folder Data). I use JSGME to enable the mods but when I start the game I see no differences. Do I have to start a new campaign or no need to?

Hopefully not in that order?

IRAI 1.0.0 is a single unit test version (as stated in the mod thread), get the main one in the first post & replace.

To see the OHII additions you will need to start a new campaign. The rest should be pretty obvious, you should see the options for New UIs on the periscope views etc. Dynamic Environment should also be reasonably obvious.

In JSGME, go 'tasks' and select 'export mod list to clipboard' and post it here so we can check the order etc.

Don't forget JSGME needs to be in the main SH5 folder (and the 'MODS' folder that it asks you to create should be there too) to work. We'll check your list (don't forget to replace IRAI with the proper version) and see how we get on.


EDIT: Proper install order for your above list should be:

IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
FX Update 0.0.19
NewUIs TDC 6.7.0 (and several other add-ons)
Open Horizons II
Dynamic Environment Basemod (of whatever type)
Dynamic Environment optional mods
Equipment Upgrades
Critical Hits Torpedo & Gun
KZS Hull Wetness
Lifeboats 2.0
Realistic Ammo Amount
Real Sink 1.0 [Last]

[Jamesphillip]

Ok then, redownloaded the 0.0.3 IRAI version and deleted the other one. Put the Generic Mod Enabler and all it's files in SH5 main directory plus the Mods folder. I have all that mods plus those two you mentioned before and installed them separately as specified. I already have the NewTDC Ui no airplane spotting and no surface hydrophone installed in the New TDC ui folder.
Is there any problem in starting a new campaign and play the tutorial mission so I can get that 18 experience points or should I skip it? ehehe

EDIT: Sorry I misread the above post and I didn't see that you already posted the mod load order. BRB

[0rpheus]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Ok then, redownloaded the 0.0.3 IRAI version. Put the program and all it's files in SH5 main directory plus the Mods folder. I have all that mods plus those two you mentioned before and installed them separately as specified.
Now what load order should I use for this Mods?

Install JSGME to C:/Ubisoft/Silent Hunter 5
Run JSGME
When asked to create 'MODS' folder, create it in C/Ubisoft/Silent Hunter 5
Put all mod folders in new 'MODS' folder in C/Ubisoft/Silent Hunter 5
Run JSGME
Install in the order I gave you in the last post.

Start new campaign & enjoy

*2 minor things. You must have completed the tutorial before installing mods, but sounds like you've done that. Also game must be at version 1.2.0(in top right of main game menu) - which I'm assuming it is.

EDIT: my dumb fault, didn't fully read your post lol. If you've done the tutorial once, skip it. Also, if you want to try out the various campaigns without going through in order, type 'silentotto' on the campaign screen.

[Jamesphillip]

Thanks once again for your help. Something must be wrong with the installation. I tried starting a campaign, skipped the tutorial, but when the game starts I see the image with weird colour patterns (mostly white, some red and green squares and some visible spaces where I can see the environment but were very small). As soon as I exit the game it shows the game report and all is fine. I see the submarine port and houses, no more weird image.

EDIT: I merged the add-ons from NewTDCui and Open Horizons to their main folders, gonna try installing them separately through the generic mod enabler

[0rpheus]

Originally Posted by Jamesphillip

Thanks once again for your help. Something must be wrong with the installation. I tried starting a campaign, skipped the tutorial, but when the game starts I see the image with weird colour patterns (mostly white, some red and green squares and some visible spaces where I can see the environment but were very small). As soon as I exit the game it shows the game report and all is fine. I see the submarine port and houses, no more weird image.

EDIT: I merged the add-ons from NewTDCui and Open Horizons to their main folders, gonna try installing them separately through the generic mod enabler

Ok yeah the merging might not work with OHII - I wouldn't recommend it. I only mentioned it for Magnum Opus as that's confirmed to work for MO Patch 2, though I installed mine with JSGME anyway for easy add/remove. As a general rule never merge mods - that's what JSGME is for.

That sounds like New UIs going wonky and it's been encountered a lot by new chaps getting their installs slightly wrong. Always install them separately. One thing to try might be to just install IRAI, FX & New UIs, then start the game and check you get the new UI options - then exit and install the others.

[Jamesphillip]

I got it working finally, now to try this thingie thanks a lot once again

EDIT: It's not working again! Suddenly all went white for no reason! I had to restart the game and when I started playing it went all white and yellow again... oh darn it

[0rpheus]

Did you have any success in the end? Only thing I can really suggest is remove every mod and maybe reinstall, then try adding them again! Fingers crossed for you mate

[Jamesphillip]

yep i got it working, now the only problem seems that my crew and XO stay in their stations while I dive... I didn't have this issue before!