A bit of Realism

CaptainMattJ. · 09-04-11, 02:00 AM

Its sad that it has come to this but i feel like it must be addressed.

many people have said how threads take a turn for the worst when it originally was not intended to become a discussion of politics, religion, and other heated arguments. But most of it is the idealistic hope of what it SHOULD be. But not what it is going to be. So heres what to expect and what you can do to try and curtail such debates.

- Any thread that could POSSIBLY relate to religion, politics, war, or anything of heated argument will ultimately result in the thread becoming an argument about such things.

-Arguments will eventually escalate. People eventually tend to take it personally. Try not to take things personally as an attack against you as a person. Take things on a lighter note.

-No matter how much argument goes on, there will be little to no progress in convincing the other side. Therefore, the thread will eventually die. And all of it will be wasted breaths. try not to go in depth into an argument.

- Try to talk in a neutral stance when talking neutrally about things. Unless it is a thread devoted to arguments about religion (the most popular topic it seems :/) or politics, try not to bring it up. Things like "Like the good book says.." or otherwise might spark a debate, so talk perhaps in a more neutral stance in threads not intended to be debates about it.

- ^^^ That will most likely happen anyway, regardless of neutral speaking. Try to ignore passive aggressive comments by some. Just ignore the comment.

- Dont take things so personally. Be loose and open. I know there are alot of guys in this forum that really stick to their guns, and thats ok, but if they present cold and harsh rebuttals, try to be calm and collected, and deliver a calm and collected rebuttal. The other person may pick up on the tone and tone it down to a respectable level.

I know this is a longshot, and i know its weird and may feel like we shouldnt HAVE to address this, but i feel like it must be. Most of this stuff will happen often regardless, but maybe people will take more consideration.

And i do realize how this may have a lot of idealism tied to it, i tried to point out what people were saying in reality.

I dont know. speaking from a realistic point of view, people may just gloss over this thread, consider it, and throw it out and continue this type of behavior. But maybe some, although few, may take the advice.

Cheers to a more loose and lolcat subsim

Schöneboom · 09-04-11, 10:53 AM

Ahoy, Captain,

It is true, there has been a decline in civility here, & in the GT forum that's saying a lot. I suspect one of the contributing factors is that we're not playing our subsims as much as we used to. For ex., the Silent Hunter forums were once beehives of activity. Alas, that golden age is behind us, and instead of sinking ships and feeling the camaraderie, some of us take our pent-up aggression to the GT forum.

Some of us just need to get laid more often.

NeonSamurai · 09-04-11, 11:10 AM

I don't know of what golden age you speak, GT has always been like this.

A lot of it is people who only wish to spread their argument and have absolutely no intention of considering another position, let alone debating it. The thread devolves, people get hostile, the old lines are drawn (liberal vs conservative, religious vs non-religious, etc), and the ugliness starts anew. Sometimes the moderators have to step in to calm things down (or just lock an out of control thread).

In some ways it's a little less extreme than it once was, certainly politically anyhow.

Dowly · 09-04-11, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I don't know of what golden age you speak, GT has always been like this.

Precisely.

Hottentot · 09-04-11, 11:26 AM

The problem as I see it is that people know each other too well. Old things and disagreements are occasionally brought up in threads not relating to them. It's not anymore about what a certain poster says: as soon as he says it, someone will remember that this poster is like this or that, supports that or this and once in the year of Stick and Stone said blah blah blah. Therefore it is somehow justified to attack him. People become just labels.

But I too remember worse times, during which I simply lurked and often shook my head. Things have been getting better lately, imho.

Egan · 09-04-11, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I don't know of what golden age you speak, GT has always been like this.

I mostly agree with that, but I do think it got worse about six or seven years ago. I'm still not sure why.

Dowly · 09-04-11, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

I mostly agree with that, but I do think it got worse about six or seven years ago. I'm still not sure why.

More people = more clashing personalities?

Schöneboom · 09-04-11, 11:38 AM

Perhaps my nostalgia results from having spent more time in the SH forums, and now I spend more time in GT than elsewhere. Quite a difference.

Sledgehammer427 · 09-04-11, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schöneboom

Perhaps my nostalgia results from having spent more time in the SH forums, and now I spend more time in GT than elsewhere. Quite a difference.

^^
This.

Egan · 09-04-11, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

More people = more clashing personalities?

Yeah, it's possible. Things went a bit weird after SH3 came out; massive influx of people arrived. That was about 2005 or 2006 wasn't it?

I try not to let the more heated discussions in here get to me, though. Life's too short. And when it does start winding me up I go and throw bricks at a picture of Anne Coulter or Margaret Thatcher...calms me right down again!

But seriously, a lot of the time, when it comes to more or less serious issues, the Internet seems to solely exist to prove Churchill's old maxim that a fanatic is somebody that can't change their mind and won't change the subject. Why bother wasting energy?

Jimbuna · 09-04-11, 12:54 PM

A good topic and well meant words, opinions and advice

As previously stated though...this is GT and it has always been that little bit 'different' to the other forum areas.

GT is the one area where a little more leeway is given to what is posted....an area that IIRC was intended to help keep the angst out of the areas dedicated to more specific topics such as SH3, 4 and 5 etc.

One piece of advice I would like to share is.....always try to ensure you stay within the parameters of the rules as set out by Neal.

Gargamel · 09-04-11, 01:06 PM

Problem with most threads in most forums (not just subsim), is that the argument is usually resolved within a few pages, but tangent discussions have occurred, and then tangents from them. So the whole point of the OP is now completely moot and a seperate discussion takes place. And this is usually caused by somebody voicing an opinion that others disagree with, and then the back and forth starts.

While we can (and should) ask people to restrain themselves, it's pretty much like herding cats.

Skybird · 09-04-11, 01:28 PM

I'm with these forums since around 11 years now, 90% and more of the time in GT. I see no problem with detoriating manners here, quite the opposite: it has been much worse at various times in the past (and due to the moire controversial ways of goings maybe also more active, vivid, personally engaged). I would even say that currently, this year and having started in the past year, GT even has become a relatively tame place, even lame compared to those hot years the old hands around may still remember. But some names have disappeared who have been here for many years, some voices fell silent, and others - I think I fall into that group - have changed over the years and have become less enthusiastic in posting activity and disucssing things to death. We all become older, wiser, and a bit more "tired".

I still see controversies here and there, and I know with whom I will disagree over what - but I also see that these other guys no longer are as insisting as before, and I also see that me too does not feel the drive of wanting to nail down my point with all rigor anymore, too. So it goes. The long time members here know what I mean - for those who are relatively new, arriving within the last 2 years or so, it may appear to be a hot place at times. But believe me: it is nothing compared to the heat that has been there, years ago.

So take it as it is, and be happy with it. Not many forums I have seen on the web that could compare to subsim.

Skybird · 09-04-11, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

Problem with most threads in most forums (not just subsim), is that the argument is usually resolved within a few pages, but tangent discussions have occurred, and then tangents from them. So the whole point of the OP is now completely moot and a seperate discussion takes place. And this is usually caused by somebody voicing an opinion that others disagree with, and then the back and forth starts.

While we can (and should) ask people to restrain themselves, it's pretty much like herding cats.

Sidelined discussions always have been present in GT - always. And it is no problem if the participating parties in such tangent disucssions can identiify it as that, or if it happens to come out like htat in a non-aggressive, often even humours way. This forum is no academic debate club. It more compares to a pub. And in a pub, words get thrown back and forth all over the place, while rumours make the round and drinks get handed over the table. That'S what makes a pub a pub. This is GT, and no specialised subforum on sensible poetry - or subsims. For subsims any navy stuff, there are the other forums - plenty of them.

joea · 09-04-11, 02:43 PM

Why can't we all just agree and think alike?

That is think like me?

I agree with Skybird, it was worse in the past and has gotten more mellow in some respects. Libya 2011 just doesn't awake the same passions like Iraq 2003.

09-04-11, 02:00 AM	#1
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	A bit of Realism Its sad that it has come to this but i feel like it must be addressed. many people have said how threads take a turn for the worst when it originally was not intended to become a discussion of politics, religion, and other heated arguments. But most of it is the idealistic hope of what it SHOULD be. But not what it is going to be. So heres what to expect and what you can do to try and curtail such debates. - Any thread that could POSSIBLY relate to religion, politics, war, or anything of heated argument will ultimately result in the thread becoming an argument about such things. -Arguments will eventually escalate. People eventually tend to take it personally. Try not to take things personally as an attack against you as a person. Take things on a lighter note. -No matter how much argument goes on, there will be little to no progress in convincing the other side. Therefore, the thread will eventually die. And all of it will be wasted breaths. try not to go in depth into an argument. - Try to talk in a neutral stance when talking neutrally about things. Unless it is a thread devoted to arguments about religion (the most popular topic it seems :/) or politics, try not to bring it up. Things like "Like the good book says.." or otherwise might spark a debate, so talk perhaps in a more neutral stance in threads not intended to be debates about it. - ^^^ That will most likely happen anyway, regardless of neutral speaking. Try to ignore passive aggressive comments by some. Just ignore the comment. - Dont take things so personally. Be loose and open. I know there are alot of guys in this forum that really stick to their guns, and thats ok, but if they present cold and harsh rebuttals, try to be calm and collected, and deliver a calm and collected rebuttal. The other person may pick up on the tone and tone it down to a respectable level. I know this is a longshot, and i know its weird and may feel like we shouldnt HAVE to address this, but i feel like it must be. Most of this stuff will happen often regardless, but maybe people will take more consideration. And i do realize how this may have a lot of idealism tied to it, i tried to point out what people were saying in reality. I dont know. speaking from a realistic point of view, people may just gloss over this thread, consider it, and throw it out and continue this type of behavior. But maybe some, although few, may take the advice. Cheers to a more loose and lolcat subsim __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

09-04-11, 10:53 AM	#2
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Ahoy, Captain, It is true, there has been a decline in civility here, & in the GT forum that's saying a lot. I suspect one of the contributing factors is that we're not playing our subsims as much as we used to. For ex., the Silent Hunter forums were once beehives of activity. Alas, that golden age is behind us, and instead of sinking ships and feeling the camaraderie, some of us take our pent-up aggression to the GT forum. Some of us just need to get laid more often. __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher."

09-04-11, 11:10 AM	#3
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I don't know of what golden age you speak, GT has always been like this. A lot of it is people who only wish to spread their argument and have absolutely no intention of considering another position, let alone debating it. The thread devolves, people get hostile, the old lines are drawn (liberal vs conservative, religious vs non-religious, etc), and the ugliness starts anew. Sometimes the moderators have to step in to calm things down (or just lock an out of control thread). In some ways it's a little less extreme than it once was, certainly politically anyhow. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

09-04-11, 11:26 AM	#5
Hottentot Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: My private socialist utopia of Finland Posts: 1,918 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	The problem as I see it is that people know each other too well. Old things and disagreements are occasionally brought up in threads not relating to them. It's not anymore about what a certain poster says: as soon as he says it, someone will remember that this poster is like this or that, supports that or this and once in the year of Stick and Stone said blah blah blah. Therefore it is somehow justified to attack him. People become just labels. But I too remember worse times, during which I simply lurked and often shook my head. Things have been getting better lately, imho. __________________ Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда.

09-04-11, 11:38 AM	#8
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Perhaps my nostalgia results from having spent more time in the SH forums, and now I spend more time in GT than elsewhere. Quite a difference. __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher."

09-04-11, 12:54 PM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,726 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A good topic and well meant words, opinions and advice As previously stated though...this is GT and it has always been that little bit 'different' to the other forum areas. GT is the one area where a little more leeway is given to what is posted....an area that IIRC was intended to help keep the angst out of the areas dedicated to more specific topics such as SH3, 4 and 5 etc. One piece of advice I would like to share is.....always try to ensure you stay within the parameters of the rules as set out by Neal. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

09-04-11, 01:06 PM	#12
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Problem with most threads in most forums (not just subsim), is that the argument is usually resolved within a few pages, but tangent discussions have occurred, and then tangents from them. So the whole point of the OP is now completely moot and a seperate discussion takes place. And this is usually caused by somebody voicing an opinion that others disagree with, and then the back and forth starts. While we can (and should) ask people to restrain themselves, it's pretty much like herding cats. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

09-04-11, 01:28 PM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,679 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I'm with these forums since around 11 years now, 90% and more of the time in GT. I see no problem with detoriating manners here, quite the opposite: it has been much worse at various times in the past (and due to the moire controversial ways of goings maybe also more active, vivid, personally engaged). I would even say that currently, this year and having started in the past year, GT even has become a relatively tame place, even lame compared to those hot years the old hands around may still remember. But some names have disappeared who have been here for many years, some voices fell silent, and others - I think I fall into that group - have changed over the years and have become less enthusiastic in posting activity and disucssing things to death. We all become older, wiser, and a bit more "tired". I still see controversies here and there, and I know with whom I will disagree over what - but I also see that these other guys no longer are as insisting as before, and I also see that me too does not feel the drive of wanting to nail down my point with all rigor anymore, too. So it goes. The long time members here know what I mean - for those who are relatively new, arriving within the last 2 years or so, it may appear to be a hot place at times. But believe me: it is nothing compared to the heat that has been there, years ago. So take it as it is, and be happy with it. Not many forums I have seen on the web that could compare to subsim. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-04-11, 02:43 PM	#15
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Why can't we all just agree and think alike? That is think like me? I agree with Skybird, it was worse in the past and has gotten more mellow in some respects. Libya 2011 just doesn't awake the same passions like Iraq 2003.