[REQ] Modify Code for more realism. More Realism

[tomoose]

.....to request something.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his post comes across a lot whinier than he intended AND that he doesn't realise that modders are not paid programmers and do this on their own time without expectation of compensation (other than great praise from us lowly non-modders) and to help improve the overall gameplay.

They are not magicians and there are aspects that they simply cannot fix (they are NOT the devs).

My gut reaction to the OP was to post "Stop playing and unload the game" but again perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions.

Originally Posted by tomoose

.....to request something.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his post comes across a lot whinier than he intended AND that he doesn't realise that modders are not paid programmers and do this on their own time without expectation of compensation (other than great praise from us lowly non-modders) and to help improve the overall gameplay.

They are not magicians and there are aspects that they simply cannot fix (they are NOT the devs).

My gut reaction to the OP was to post "Stop playing and unload the game" but again perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions.

at first read i see someone who is just frustrated with how the game works and by his requests its obvious he hasnt got a chance to explore the mods that are out there that fix most of his "complaints"

to the OP - there is no game "code" that modders alter, the term "hard coded" is something you will hear a lot as you read more about what can and cant be done with the game.

a lot in this game is "editable" with some freely accessed and available utilities that allow reading and understanding some settings the game uses and modders just change these to get different results that make the game better, that is all.

[Patchman123]

Look people,
I ain't no whiner. I'm not whining about anything. I just want to see better collision physics and the like from the game. Why isn't more being done? Why am I a whiner? I am not!

I think that more needs to be done. A submarine does not suddenly break up when it collides with the land. A submarine can survive beaching on the shore. The sand seems metallic and not sand. An island is like a metallic object that breaks a submarine like a ceramic plate.

I would like to know which mods fix the complaints I have. Why isn't there a collision physics mod? Why does ramming an island damage my submarine?
Even a 5 knots a slow SLOW speed. It still damages my ceramic submarine.

My submarine can't settle on the bottom or have controllable dive planes so that I can settle on the bottom in shallow waters to avoid detection. I settled on the bottom in SH3 with the U-boat mod, but I was still detected by British sonar even though I was running silently.

They still depth charged me. Why don't I ever hear plates breaking? I know the crew rotates on the watch. That's about it.
The crew doesn't do much else. The game does not have a way to see the submarine.

I'm frustrated that the mods do not do enough. It is not possible to have a thousand planes because of the game engine, but I am hoping that someday we will help create more realistic World War II games with thousands of planes in the sky with a subsim that will have more detail and more planes and ships and actually make a difference in the war. How about having a game where the Germans encounter U-boats and have convoys sail on their actual dates and bombing raids happen according to logs in the 8th Air Force and so on. Have a game in the future where thousands of planes dot the sky in a subsim and have bombing raids against Manila by Japanese planes. No Japanese planes strafing the harbor for example on December 8th 1941 in Manila like the ACTUAL war? No Clark Field. No Japanese bombing raids. Why can't be have cities reduced to rubble like Manila? Why can't Japanese planes be seen in the sky in the Philippines Submarine Campaign in TMO or RFB?

There are no P-40s either. No bombing raids. No Rabaul reduced to rubble or having B-25s strafe ships in the harbor or remnants of Allied or Axis bombing raids. Why has there never been a "M" rated submarine game?

With more realism that is graphic. Why do subsims have to be PG-13 Disney versions of war?
Why can't I see Japanese air raids heading for Henderson Field on Guadalcanal in the sky with Japanese planes flying high in the sky?

Why don't destroyers buckle upward from the pressure of an exploding depth charge from detonating at a shallow depth? I saw Unsolved History on the Military Channel on Dish Network Channel 195 and an American destroyer attacks a Japanese midget submarine in Pearl Harbor in the show and the destroyer was lifted upward by the explosion and damaged by it, yet I do not see that in Silent Hunter 4.

Why don't depth charges detonate at a minimal depth setting or have a minimal depth setting instead of detonating at 20 feet or so? I believe that depth charges had a minimal depth at which they could explode at.



My map names mod will NEVER be incorporated into a major mod. I give the community permission to use it however they want to. Any flaws with it?

[Armistead]

RSRD scripts most historical traffic, you see plenty of air raids, you can watch planes attack in mass against surface fleets, watch TF battle it out, etc...Probably 90% of historical plane and ship traffic is in the game.

Of all your complaints, things that are not in the game, cities that crumble, why, subs don't attack cities. This is a submarine sim, no one really cares about watching cities crumble, that's more of a plane sim.

You can't beach your sub. Realistically if a sub hit a reef or land at speed, it would damage. Why do you need to beach your sub, it's just not a needed feature?

You can sit on the bottom at zero speed, but it doesn't hide you from sonar, nor would it realistically. Many DD's picked up sunken vessels on the body with sonar why searching for subs.

In stock DD's use to make mistakes and blow themselves up all the time with shallow charges, so it was corrected....Still can happen, but it's very rare as it should be.

With any game, the AI is limited, it's not gonna do all the functions humans would do.

This is an old game. Sure they could create the uber realistic game, but it would require the best rigs limiting sells. I imagine in 20 years we'll be playing games as such.

Again, they're many mods, but most are based on aspects of sub warfare, not other parts of war.

yes your sub has a glass hull when it comes to contact with other objects but if done carefully its very easy to put your sub on the bottom without any damage.

have your engines come to a complete stop about 5-10 meters off of the bottom and when you have slowed down to at least a speed of 1 (dead stop is best) then lower your depth 5 meters at a time waiting for it to stop before going deeper then your sub will settle slowly doing no damage when you contact the bottom. when you touch bottom lower the depth about 15 meters lower then your depth so the sub stays steady and doesnt move around causing damage

when you are ready to move again just raise up your depth but you cant use the engines untill you clear the bottom or you will get engine, hull, and rudder, damage just as you should in real life

its not like the movies where you just sink till you hit the bottom or you would bend the rudders, props, and shafts doing it and in doing so you are effectively destroying your own sub

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Patchman123

Look people,
I ain't no whiner. I'm not whining about anything. I just want to see better collision physics and the like from the game. Why isn't more being done? Why am I a whiner? I am not!

Of course you're not. I was just teasing a little. The problem is that no group of devs could possibly take everything into account in the time allotted to them to create the game.

I think that more needs to be done. A submarine does not suddenly break up when it collides with the land. A submarine can survive beaching on the shore. The sand seems metallic and not sand. An island is like a metallic object that breaks a submarine like a ceramic plate.

That is a valid complaint. The real problem isn't how the sub acts when it strikes land. The real problem is that it strikes land at all. The lookouts don't bother to mention that you are fast approaching an island the navigator didn't bother to notice on the charts. What should happen is that the OOD simply steers the boat around the island. As for beaching the boat, yes, you should be able to do that. But the devs didn't think of it, and there doesn't seem to be a way to fix it without rewriting the codes, which is illegal.

I would like to know which mods fix the complaints I have. Why isn't there a collision physics mod? Why does ramming an island damage my submarine?
Even a 5 knots a slow SLOW speed. It still damages my ceramic submarine.

In the original SH1 you could sink your sub ramming a wooden sampan. I learned that lesson the hard way, and at least they've fixed that.

My submarine can't settle on the bottom or have controllable dive planes so that I can settle on the bottom in shallow waters to avoid detection. I settled on the bottom in SH3 with the U-boat mod, but I was still detected by British sonar even though I was running silently.

True, interacting with the bottom is something that should be possible. That said, sitting on the bottom isn't a guarantee that you won't be found, it just helps some. Way back in '94 Aces Of The Deep let you do that. Of course you could also get stuck there.

They still depth charged me. Why don't I ever hear plates breaking? I know the crew rotates on the watch. That's about it.
The crew doesn't do much else. The game does not have a way to see the submarine.

See it how? From the outside? Sure you can, at least in the version I play. Of course if you wanted true realism you would never use external views anyway.

I'm frustrated that the mods do not do enough.

And that is why I accused you of whining. Modders don't work for you, or me. They work for themselves and do what they want. It's not their job to create the mods you want. If you want something more then you do need to learn how to do it yourself.

It is not possible to have a thousand planes because of the game engine, but I am hoping that someday we will help create more realistic World War II games with thousands of planes in the sky with a subsim that will have more detail and more planes and ships and actually make a difference in the war.

How often would a u-boat actually see a thousand-plane raid? It doesn't make much sense to put in things that might happen once in ten careers.

How about having a game where the Germans encounter U-boats and have convoys sail on their actual dates

If that were done you would be able to look up the convoy and know exactly when and where to intercept it, and what ships to look for. That is information no kaleun could ever have, and would make it easy to cheat. Randomness is much better.

and bombing raids happen according to logs in the 8th Air Force and so on.

Again, how many of those raids did any u-boat captain ever see? You're asking for things that eat up resources best used elsewhere.

No Japanese planes strafing the harbor for example on December 8th 1941 in Manila like the ACTUAL war? No Clark Field. No Japanese bombing raids. Why can't be have cities reduced to rubble like Manila? Why can't Japanese planes be seen in the sky in the Philippines Submarine Campaign in TMO or RFB?

Those are things that might be scripted in, and might be cool to see, but it only happens once in a career, and again wasn't done because they were more concerned with things that happened on a regular basis, not once.

Why don't destroyers buckle upward from the pressure of an exploding depth charge from detonating at a shallow depth? I saw Unsolved History on the Military Channel on Dish Network Channel 195 and an American destroyer attacks a Japanese midget submarine in Pearl Harbor in the show and the destroyer was lifted upward by the explosion and damaged by it, yet I do not see that in Silent Hunter 4.

You'd have to show evidence for that one. I've read a lot about Pearl Harbor, and yes, USS Ward did attack a midget sub, but I don't recall reading about her taking damage from her depth charges.

Basically you seem to me to be asking for a lot of lesser things, when the real problems still haven't been fixed.

[Patchman123]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Of course you're not. I was just teasing a little. The problem is that no group of devs could possibly take everything into account in the time allotted to them to create the game.


That is a valid complaint. The real problem isn't how the sub acts when it strikes land. The real problem is that it strikes land at all. The lookouts don't bother to mention that you are fast approaching an island the navigator didn't bother to notice on the charts. What should happen is that the OOD simply steers the boat around the island. As for beaching the boat, yes, you should be able to do that. But the devs didn't think of it, and there doesn't seem to be a way to fix it without rewriting the codes, which is illegal.


In the original SH1 you could sink your sub ramming a wooden sampan. I learned that lesson the hard way, and at least they've fixed that. Shouldn't mod makers do it for the benefit of the community? Sometimes, I've seen mod makers do mods by request. It's not entirely by their own doing for themselves. They've got help from the community. So, the idea that the make them because only they want them is not right because they have demand from the community, too.



True, interacting with the bottom is something that should be possible. That said, sitting on the bottom isn't a guarantee that you won't be found, it just helps some. Way back in '94 Aces Of The Deep let you do that. Of course you could also get stuck there.


See it how? From the outside? Sure you can, at least in the version I play. Of course if you wanted true realism you would never use external views anyway.


And that is why I accused you of whining. Modders don't work for you, or me. They work for themselves and do what they want. It's not their job to create the mods you want. If you want something more then you do need to learn how to do it yourself.


How often would a u-boat actually see a thousand-plane raid? It doesn't make much sense to put in things that might happen once in ten careers.


If that were done you would be able to look up the convoy and know exactly when and where to intercept it, and what ships to look for. That is information no kaleun could ever have, and would make it easy to cheat. Randomness is much better.


Again, how many of those raids did any u-boat captain ever see? You're asking for things that eat up resources best used elsewhere.


Those are things that might be scripted in, and might be cool to see, but it only happens once in a career, and again wasn't done because they were more concerned with things that happened on a regular basis, not once.


You'd have to show evidence for that one. I've read a lot about Pearl Harbor, and yes, USS Ward did attack a midget sub, but I don't recall reading about her taking damage from her depth charges.

Basically you seem to me to be asking for a lot of lesser things, when the real problems still haven't been fixed.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66694749779812 That's wasn't the USS Ward. That was some other destroyer. That was the USS Monaghan in Pearl Harbor that attacked the other midget sub in Pearl Harbor and had its stern lifted up in the air by the depth charge explosion and the force of the explosion being so great that it caused the Monaghan to ram a barge because the explosion was so violent that it caused the destroyer to lift up a few feet in the air and caused the destroyer to lose control.
Here's the documentary evidence for you.


Man, I wish more could be done. Does GWX ring a bell? That was by community demand. The community asks for more and they deliver. The frustration I have with the mods is that I can't download them because the FileFront/GameFront links are no longer there? Is there a reason why GameFront is deleting them? Copyright infringement maybe or maybe they don't wanna get sued by Ubisoft? These people are idiots to remove such mods. I tried to download the hull numbers mod and the file was no longer there on filefront? IS there some kind of agenda involved here? Anti-military far-left agenda maybe? idiots at Filefront. Those anti-military morons in California, I CANNOT stand those jackasses!

http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/pearl/ph54.htm

[razark]

Originally Posted by Patchman123

IS there some kind of agenda involved here?

Yes, there is an agenda. It's more along the lines of "Remove stuff that isn't being downloaded to free up disk space" than some left-wing conspiracy to replace the military with a new "Panda Tree Hugging Corps", though.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

Man, I wish more could be done. Does GWX ring a bell? That was by community demand. The community asks for more and they deliver.

GWX came about pretty much the same way any other mod did. Somebody didn't like something, so he changed it. If you don't like the way the game behaves, figure out how to change it. If you don't know how to, go learn, ask some questions, examine other mods that do similar things.

[Patchman123]

Originally Posted by razark

Yes, there is an agenda. It's more along the lines of "Remove stuff that isn't being downloaded to free up disk space" than some left-wing conspiracy to replace the military with a new "Panda Tree Hugging Corps", though.



GWX came about pretty much the same way any other mod did. Somebody didn't like something, so he changed it. If you don't like the way the game behaves, figure out how to change it. If you don't know how to, go learn, ask some questions, examine other mods that do similar things.

Yes, I have some questions. Does anyone want the Dutch islands in the map names mod to be in English?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Patchman123

That was the USS Monaghan in Pearl Harbor that attacked the other midget sub in Pearl Harbor and had its stern lifted up in the air by the depth charge explosion and the force of the explosion being so great that it caused the Monaghan to ram a barge because the explosion was so violent that it caused the destroyer to lift up a few feet in the air and caused the destroyer to lose control.
Here's the documentary evidence for you.

I don't know where you're getting your information, or where the video makers got theirs. Here are the complete action reports from all the officers aboard Monaghan, and nowhere do they say anything about their ship being affected by the depth charges.

Now it's true that destroyers must accelerate just before they drop, as depth charges certainly can cause damage if they go off under the ship. This is the reason American PT boats carried DCs later in the war - to discourage pursuing Japanese destroyers.

Man, I wish more could be done. Does GWX ring a bell? That was by community demand.

No, that was because the people who formed that team wanted more themselves. They did, as many modders do, ask what others wanted to see in the mod, but they did it because they wanted to, not because someone demanded it.

The frustration I have with the mods is that I can't download them because the FileFront/GameFront links are no longer there? Is there a reason why GameFront is deleting them?

Mostly because of lack of interest, and bandwidth availability. It costs money to keep a site like that going. When I had mods up at GameFront (back when it was FileFront) they would send me emails saying that they would take down this mod or that one unless I actively asked them not to. If anyone puts a mod up there and then goes away, it gets taken down fairly quickly.

Have you tried Maik's excellent site, or here at Subsim Downloads? Have you asked other members if they have copies of mods you want?

[Mescator]

Something i think you should probably be informed about. Once code is compiled, it is VERY Difficult, if not impossible to modify. I'm sure the fine modders who grace us would have changed a lot more than they have if they could do it directly rather than skirting around and tweaking things to get the same result.

Much of what you want i would think is hard coded, so before you demand mods to do things, i think you would do very well to LEARN what is possible first.

I also think you greatly underestimate the strain some of your requests would put on even the most powerful computers. 1000 Aeroplanes? That would murder most systems. It's all good and well to want to see bomber wings reducing Rabaul to rubble and each crew member to have individual personalitys, looks, animations and dialogues, but what your talking about is thousands of hours with access to the source code.

I doubt even triple AAA Development teams would generate the capital for that sort of ambition, especially not on a simulation.

[indy]

Armistead your killen me!.. Stop.. lol.. lol.. lol..