F16's Scrambled As Pilot, 75, Triggers Obama Alert - Page 2

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-06-11, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I am sure there are advantages of approaching at all altitudes. Not being an suicidal terrorist, I can't opine on which would be the best.

Since the J3 could legally approach until the edge of the TFR zone, I would imagine a higher altitude for the dive speed might be better. The lower altitude makes you more vulnerable to small arms fire and kills the ballistic trajectory option.

It is an intriguing problem to consider.

Little strategist and tactician in me started thinking options of how to execute attack and how to prevent it. Currently it looks like that having radar directed quad 40 mm Bofors right next from presidents limo would be quite nice to have.

CaptainMattJ. · 08-06-11, 01:32 PM

Bofors? Someone is living in the past

.

Its all about the radar-guided Dual vulcan platform firing 20mm High Explosive rounds.

Theres no comparison. Youll be lucky if anyone can find half of your body parts after that thing literally shreds you like paper. not to mention your aircraft, which will look like swiss cheese on a bad day

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-06-11, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Bofors? Someone is living in the past

.

Its all about the radar-guided Dual vulcan platform firing 20mm High Explosive rounds.

Theres no comparison. Youll be lucky if anyone can find half of your body parts after that thing literally shreds you like paper. not to mention your aircraft, which will look like swiss cheese on a bad day

If I need a gun I take Bofors, if I need a sewing machine I take Vulcan.

mobucks · 08-06-11, 02:29 PM

I would fly next to her wing and tip the old bat sideways like pilots used to do to the V2 rockets in WW2. No ammunition used that way.

Platapus · 08-06-11, 02:40 PM

It was not all that long ago that there were still Hawk Missile sites around Dulles Airport. One could see the mounds from the highway but I imagine few knew what they were for.

Then about 10 years ago, they were all taken down,

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-06-11, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

It was not all that long ago that there were still Hawk Missile sites around Dulles Airport. One could see the mounds from the highway but I imagine few knew what they were for.

Then about 10 years ago, they were all taken down,

About 10 years ago? Do you remember was that before or after 9/11?

Platapus · 08-06-11, 02:53 PM

They were taken down before 9/11 so it must have been longer than 10 years. I was still military at that time so it was probably in the late 1990's.

I don't think there was any active decision to take down the Hawk sites, they had been abandoned for many many years, it was more leave them up until we need to take them down for other construction.

Which is what happened. That part of airport property was graded for something and gone were the Hawk mounds. I don't know if there are still any old mounds left on the less accessible portions of the airport.

It would be interesting to see the Air Defense plans for Washington DC during the cold war.

Jimbuna · 08-06-11, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I wonder if modern heat seeking missiles would even lock on to a J3?

I hope the USSS has already figured this out.

Possibly radar guided?

MH · 08-06-11, 03:17 PM

Maybe optical image recognition....

Torplexed · 08-06-11, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

They were taken down before 9/11 so it must have been longer than 10 years. I was still military at that time so it was probably in the late 1990's.

I don't think there was any active decision to take down the Hawk sites, they had been abandoned for many many years, it was more leave them up until we need to take them down for other construction.

Which is what happened. That part of airport property was graded for something and gone were the Hawk mounds. I don't know if there are still any old mounds left on the less accessible portions of the airport.

It would be interesting to see the Air Defense plans for Washington DC during the cold war.

In the 1950s there was a ring of Nike missile bases around Seattle. The closest one to me is currently used as the Vashon Island Equestrian Park/Nike Events Center. The launch area was leveled off, covered with dirt and now is used as a riding area. Much to my surprise, there is a complete Nike Ajax on the ground next to the assembly building: missile, booster and rail, in original paint with the addition of a Peter Max-ish rainbow on the tail.

Platapus · 08-06-11, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Possibly radar guided?

The RCS of a J3 head on would be significant

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Maybe optical image recognition....

That would be the best. Do we have any ManPads that use that system? I am not a Manpad guy.

08-06-11, 04:50 PM

Quote:

I would fly next to her wing and tip the old bat sideways like pilots used to do to the V2 rockets in WW2. No ammunition used that way.

Damn fast planes they must have had in WW2

Platapus · 08-06-11, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Damn fast planes they must have had in WW2

Especially when those small tail fins.

mobucks · 08-06-11, 11:17 PM

sorry, it was the V-1 where they did that.

heres a pic from wikipedia of a spitfire tipping a v-1

Krauter · 08-07-11, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

It is important to recognize that this was not some prohibited zone in the middle of nowhere. This was centered on O'hare Airport, which gets a little busy at times. O'hare is the third busiest airport in the world.

What was she doing flying within 30 miles of O'Hare without her radio on? Even if it is not required due to airspace designations for that area/altitude, wouldn't you think it would be a good idea to have it on?

Besides, part of the Private Pilot's education is non-radio air intercepts. When these F-16's intercepted her, they did it in an specific manner that communicates their intention. She must have a pretty high self image if she thinks that F-16's would fly close to her just to admire her and her aircraft. Planes don't do that, they maintain separation, especially military jets and civilian props.

I think this lady needs to lose her ticket until she goes through some remedial training. She does not seem to have the judgment expected of a pilot operating in crowded airspace.

Here is a nice FAA document that describes Temporary Flight Restricted Zones and at the end of the document covers the interception procedure including non-radio communication.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/not...dia/tfrweb.pdf

Agree whole heartedly. Just seems negligent and really stupid after reading her comments...

08-06-11, 01:32 PM	#17
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	Bofors? Someone is living in the past . Its all about the radar-guided Dual vulcan platform firing 20mm High Explosive rounds. Theres no comparison. Youll be lucky if anyone can find half of your body parts after that thing literally shreds you like paper. not to mention your aircraft, which will look like swiss cheese on a bad day __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

08-06-11, 02:40 PM	#20
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,402 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	It was not all that long ago that there were still Hawk Missile sites around Dulles Airport. One could see the mounds from the highway but I imagine few knew what they were for. Then about 10 years ago, they were all taken down, __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-06-11, 02:53 PM	#22
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,402 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	They were taken down before 9/11 so it must have been longer than 10 years. I was still military at that time so it was probably in the late 1990's. I don't think there was any active decision to take down the Hawk sites, they had been abandoned for many many years, it was more leave them up until we need to take them down for other construction. Which is what happened. That part of airport property was graded for something and gone were the Hawk mounds. I don't know if there are still any old mounds left on the less accessible portions of the airport. It would be interesting to see the Air Defense plans for Washington DC during the cold war. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-06-11, 02:29 PM	#19
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	I would fly next to her wing and tip the old bat sideways like pilots used to do to the V2 rockets in WW2. No ammunition used that way.

08-06-11, 03:17 PM	#24
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	Maybe optical image recognition....

08-06-11, 11:17 PM	#29
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	sorry, it was the V-1 where they did that. heres a pic from wikipedia of a spitfire tipping a v-1