Red Tails (2012)

[Oberon]

The Dora may have been the Porsche...but the P-51 was definitely the Cadillac.

[Sailor Steve]

Comparing a FW-190 to a Porsche? More like a Bentley.

[Oberon]

I guess that makes the Zero a Koenigsegg. Fast, swift...but most likely to end up driving backwards through the Pearly Gates in a ball of fire...

[Stealhead]

What was the best plane is very objective and depends on theater and the situation of the user.The P-39 was a very poor fighter in the west because its Allison engine was not designed for high altitude combat a common occurrence in the West but not something that American designers where focused on in the late 30's very early 40's.

In the East however combat was more rare above about 15,000ft this altitude and below suited the P-39 well and was not as well suited by The BF-109 and at this level the two planes where much more closely matched and it then boiled down to pilot and unit skill to highly important but for some reason often over looked factors of air to air combat.The unit that has the better overall pilot skill and coordination is gong to be the winner most times.By the time the P-39 was becoming common in the USSR(mid 1943) the Luftwaffe was sending many units to the West and leaving Easter units with less to fight with.

The same can be said of the P-51 by the time the B model was showing up on the scene the Luftwaffe had already been suffering some losses to P-47s and which got replaced by the P-51B or later in most wings except the 56th which flew various P-47 versions for the duration.The P-51B up was really bad news for Germans not because it was the best from a maneuverability stand point it was bad news because now the Americans where able to engage and destroy Luftwaffe fighters anywhere they so desired and the P-51s where causing an attrition rate on skilled pilots that the Germans could ill afford.While fresh and much better trained compared to their German counterparts for the same time in service where showing up from the US every single week and the Luftwaffe could do nothing to stop this.In my opinion one factor that killed the Luftwaffe was it lack of pilot rotation many skilled pilots died and never passed on their skills to new pilots while many US,British and Soviet where being out to much better use some of the time by allowing them to train others.

I read an interview of a former Tuskegee and he explained the reason that the Tuskegee units performed so well was because they went though much harsher training than others did.They could kicked out for slightest infraction and in some respects they tried to make them more likely to fail than others(because some had the agenda for them to fail no matter what) the result was that they where pretty damn good pilots(if they passed they really and truly passed) and they also wanted to perform well in order to prove themselves to doubters.He said that one guy got kicked out of the program because he did not respond immediately in the proper manner to a question so they dropped him.Yet a few weeks later they hired the same man as a civilian instructor pilot and he trained other men.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

*snip*

Pretty much that.

Or, one could even go as far as to say that the Luftwaffe was never truly ready
for a prolonged war.

The High Command thought the war would be a quick one, so the production
of aircraft in high numbers and having a steady flow of fresh well trained pilots
was of secondary importance.

Only when the losses of both aircraft and pilots started to rise rapidly from 1943 onwards, the HC decided to re-prioritize. But, of course, too late.

Total aircraft production figures from "The Luftwaffe and Its War of Attrition":

1940 - 10,247
1941 - 12,401
1942 - 15,409
1943 - 24,807
1944 - 40,593
1945 - 7,539

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It was an inline V-12. Radial engines have no liquid cooling system. Radials are used by the P-47 and all US Naval Aircraft. But you're right that the Mustang had the liquid cooling with all its problems and dangers. So did the Spitfire, the Hurricane and the Bf-109.

*checks* *doubletakes* Jeez. I really did type radial there. I know better than that.

As to visibility, all I can say is that until the Merlin went in and the bubble canopy was installed, the -51 was on par with other aircraft at the time - maybe slightly better.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The Allison wasn't that bad. Just not as good as the Merlin. P-38's did alright with them. Not great, but alright.

Not bad in an inline at the time for a single-engine fighter was a heck of a risk to take on. If I had to choose between a single inline Allison versus a Wright-Cyclone - I'd take the radial every time - I'd rather trade some airspeed for some durability.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Now you're condescending. Everyone who loves aviation history knows that.

Not meaning to be condescending at all.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'd pick any of them. I love them all.

True that. My comment was only intended to be taken in the "If I had only one chance to pick what would be under my Christmas tree..." vein.

Originally Posted by Platapus

That is an interesting rational for seeing a movie.

What are the odds of "this kid" meeting you and asking specific questions about the movie that you could only answer if you saw the movie?

Would there be any questions about aircraft that you could not answer without seeing the movie? I don't think so.

If a mythical kid would ever come up to me and say "boy in that movie it was great, that P-40 went straight up and almost broke the sound barrier" I would be able to correct the kid without ever seeing the movie.

I would not have to see the erroneous scene to be able to explain reality to the kid.

Come to think about it, in my 50 years, I can't remember any kid coming up to me and asking me about any historical movie. At least not the kids in my neighbourhood.

So I am not following you on how seeing the movie is necessary to be able to answer any questions some mythical kid might have.

See the movie if you want to, but to justify it as necessary to be prepared to answer some kids question at some time is a bit far fetched.

Guess I shouldn't bother trying. Not my day for communication, apparently.

[Stealhead]

Another over looked key to air to air combat: how well a pilot knows what his aircraft can do at a given altitude situation(turn,roll,climb as well) how well one can get his plane to perform at its given situation best and what his foes mounts abilities are in a given situation.

I always hate when people x was better at climbing x plane was better at picking up French hookers without crabs.....when the truth is each different plane performed different in situations one plane might be better a given altitude at say climbing but worse 10,000ft higher or 10,000ft lower than its "sweet spot" and the opposing plane might be better at those points.The skilled pilot would try to force his foe to fly inside his performance envelope and outside his foes the more the better.

[IonicRipper]

Coming out this Friday, so whos going to see it?

I cant wait, i think it has the potential to be the best movie i'll see this year!
... Or it could be filled with Hollywood BS and be ruined but from the trailers it looks good.

[USS Drum]

I saw Warhorse and it's definitively better there's no super 262s in it.

[IonicRipper]

How can you say its better if you havnt seen Redtails yet?

[USS Drum]

The trailer.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

That's because it was a film adaptation of a classic, compelling work of literary fiction written by someone who could actually tell a story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness

The fact that it was not made by a bunch of hacks didn't hurt either.

Using the Vietnam conflict as a backdrop instead of colonial Africa was a stroke of genius... it made the film resonate for a late 20th century audience in a way that the original setting might not have done. For American audiences, at least.

I learn something new every day. All I knew was that it was over budget, way over deadline, and a damn fine movie that leaves me chuckling at inappropriate moments.

The fact that it was not made by a bunch of hacks didn't hurt either.

Quoted [again] for truth. Thank you.

[IonicRipper]

Originally Posted by USS Drum

The trailer.

How can you base your opinion of a whole movie on a trailer?

Haven't you ever heard not to judge a book by its cover?

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by IonicRipper

How can you base your opinion of a whole movie on a trailer?

Haven't you ever heard not to judge a book by its cover?

Isn't the point of a trailer to give the viewer an impression of what the movie is like so they can determine whether its something they want to see? Most people base an opinion of a movie on the trailer before watching the full deal. Sometimes that opinion is correct sometimes not.

[krashkart]

I base most of my opinions about books simply by looking at the cover. If the layout is visually appealing I buy it immediately, regardless of the book's actual content. If, however, the cover is plain and boring, like for instance the cover of FM 71-2 Tank and Mechanized Infantry Battalion Task Force (my copy was OD green), I shower the book with disgust and verbal abuse, attempt to set it aflame with a menacing scowl (which never seems to work), then look around at the other customers and implore them as to exactly why they are staring at me.

I do exactly the same thing with movies. If the trailer assaults my eyes with barrage after barrage of visual goodness and sparkly fireworks, I know in my heart that it will be an even greater spectacle of entertainment than the bi-weekly hangin' (and bake sale) we hold in town square, and that it will certainly be worth the trouble of smuggling booze into the theater on opening night.

However, if the movie trailer evokes even the slightest twinge of intellectual thought, I am much more inclined to eat a jar full of pickled beetle grubs than to put forth the effort of sneaking the six or seven bottles of Thunderbird that it takes to get me started into the theater on opening night.

There is a method to my madness, folks. Trust me; Red Tails will go down in history as the greatest war movie ever seen by man.


Disclaimer: the author of this post does not take this post seriously, nor should you. This public service announcement brought to you by the makers of Thunderbird. Thunderbird: making crazy people rant since... THE DAWN OF TIME!