Top Nazi Rudolf Hess exhumed from 'pilgrimage' grave

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

My, are we sensitive today, dearie. Didn't even say "Hello Hottentot". Tsk, tsk.



What happened to your "45 years of study"?

I'm a history major. I'm not a genius, nor an angel, but being academic in this subject is not something I need to pretend.

Did you hear the whistling? That was the point flying way over your head. So I'll put this in simple terms: you are not getting laughed at for what you believe in. You are getting laughed at for playing a martyr and not answering the arguments made against your case.

OK Hello Hottentot!
Look this is not a profession for me. And the 45 years of study as a novice with a passion for all things WWII. And I am no martyr and do not hear the whistle of points only at times the hiss of hypocrisy.
The case here is why some old dead guy gets dug up, burned, then tossed
in the ocean by the all knowing all tolerant crowd.
Basically Hottentot I am just an average American to guys like you.

ZeeWolf

Neon, I do wish I was articulate enough and calm enought to take the time to put down holocaust deniers and loonies in the same detailed manner as you manage.
But I ain't , so Zeewolf you thick nazi, you are about as christian as bhuddas left toe nail clipping and are as about as intelligent as that famous liar David Irving

[Sailor Steve]

To put it a little more circumspectly, it is my observation that people who insist on this conspiracy or that ususally have an agenda, one which they cannot see beyond, and which ties up their entire lives. Also, they tend to believe their conspiract with a religious ferver. Sometimes they couch it in reasonable terms, but they worship the idea just the same, and there is no room for any possible variation. It's all they have.

So I have to agree with Tribesman in the assessment that you are almost certainly a modern Nazi, and need the evil Jews to blame everything on, because the thought that the original Nazis might actually have been evil is just too much to bear. Trust me, if there was any real evidence that the Jews as a group are trying to control everything it would be apparent to everyone, not just the select few.

[MH]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Oh, I see, you want the entire world see you as you think you are. As the
"All knowing, all caring Holy one's of Israel " totally above even a hint of sin. Right!
Please remember, it was God All Mighty that utterly destroyed the temple
in 70 AD and used the Romans as an interment of HIS wrath. And do not
forget, God left that wailing wall for a reason.


ZeeWolf

Almost like a quote from mein kamf and no "final solution" used.
Do You make Hitler look as good christian and the hand of god?

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

OK Hello Hottentot!

Hello, ZeeWolf

Look this is not a profession for me. And the 45 years of study as a novice with a passion for all things WWII. And I am no martyr and do not hear the whistle of points only at times the hiss of hypocrisy.

Really? Then I must have imagined you answering Neon's articulated and argumented post with sarcastic questions about if you are going to get persecuted or being put on a list. You also asked: "Will I be disrespected, open to ridicule, derision or any kind of unkind or hateful remarks or treatment from any quarter? By you or anyone you know who maybe waiting to ponce on me". That was what I was responding to.

The case here is why some old dead guy gets dug up, burned, then tossed in the ocean by the all knowing all tolerant crowd.

A good question. But how does the last 8 or so pages of this thread relate to that?

Basically Hottentot I am just an average American to guys like you.

A fascinating idea.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

woops, too late!

I am doing my best to lean joegrundman, I just feel ganged up on.

ZeeWolf

I just feel ganged up on.

Its just so unfair, it is not like anyone could simply think of a couple of million reasons why a holocaust denier could be ridiculed.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

I am doing my best to lean joegrundman, I just feel ganged up on.

ZeeWolf

Well, look at the thread. It started as a post about Hess, was developing into a discussion of why he got worse treatment than other Nazis, and then an old troll turned it into a "Nazis were really the good guys" tangent, and then you joined in supporting his claims. When people disagreed you posted a link to a video of a man most of us consider a crackpot, and you keep insisting that he has the only truth. What exactly do you expect? Reasonable discussion? You haven't given any, why should you get any?

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Well for one thing I am very wary as to the veracity of anything coming from the IHR, and claims made by Fred
Leuchter. He has already been proven to be a liar and a fraud in court. So his claims of persecution are also suspect. I have no doubt that he has not always been treated in the nicest fashion by people. But then he is associated with a known publisher of hate material (which that comes from also), and from all external evidence appears to be racist/antisemitic himself. So there will be people who will take a strong dislike to him. He is also certainly strongly motivated to lie about being persecuted, as it garners him attention and sympathy and helps spread his message.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...uchter-05.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...hter-0195.html

About the IHR
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/ihr/ihr-faq-01.html


One thing I will point out, that you may have noticed, is that Nizkor publishes everything, including the holocaust denial material. You cannot say the same for any of the denial sites. This is the difference between honest discussion and debate, and what most holocaust deniers do, which is spread their own agenda (which unsurprisingly is hate related).

Like I said, I have no problem with open honest debate. I also prefer to refute claims rather than simply try to stifle them. Hence why I left the utter garbage posted by 'the_truth', rather than censoring it. I do however have little tolerance for blatant hate speech.

I am not trying to cow you or anything either, and I am only master of myself. I present rational arguments to your points when I disagree.



People do all the time though, on matters that they take on faith. All religions and organizations have their martyrs. People also do similar for political views (look at all the ardent nazi's, or the SS, many of whom fought to the death for their views). People are capable of an infinite level of self delusion in the end, and can latch on to anything no matter how absurd it appears to others.

I am not saying, though, that Jesus is or is not a lie, as I try not to stray too far into maters of religion. At least as long as said religion does not try to impose itself on me, or try to take away my own rights.

P.S. want to talk about persecution, take a look at the level of persecution many atheists put up with, even in this day and age.

Well Fred Leuchter certainly has my sympathy. I would like to know if the
accusation of him being proven a lie while under oath was followed with the
prosecution for perjury? I know that this is a big deal when someone other
the member of the anointed class lies in court.

As far as any evidence for him being denounced as a racist/antisemite I found zip.

ZeeWolf

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

the anointed class

And there's why you get no respect.

[NeonSamurai]

I would suggest that everyone back off from the trolling. I am aware that this topic is sensitive to many people, but I do not feel that the trolling is accomplishing anything (and will get you into trouble if you go too far).

If you seriously wish to debate this ZeeWolf, by all means do so and I will do my best to keep the trolling to a minimum. Present your arguments and I will offer my counters.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Neon, I do wish I was articulate enough and calm enought to take the time to put down holocaust deniers and loonies in the same detailed manner as you manage.
But I ain't , so Zeewolf you thick nazi, you are about as christian as bhuddas left toe nail clipping and are as about as intelligent as that famous liar David Irving

Thank God I can enjoy the assurance of my salvation no matter what temporary Godless political Joan of Arch may howl.

Bless you my child,

ZeeWolf

[Gerald]

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, look at the thread. It started as a post about Hess, was developing into a discussion of why he got worse treatment than other Nazis, and then an old troll turned it into a "Nazis were really the good guys" tangent, and then you joined in supporting his claims. When people disagreed you posted a link to a video of a man most of us consider a crackpot, and you keep insisting that he has the only truth. What exactly do you expect? Reasonable discussion? You haven't given any, why should you get any?

Well Sailor Steve, you do have a good point but when your dodging bullets
your focus can get awfully narrow so to speak

ZeeWolf

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by MH

Almost like a quote from mein kamf and no "final solution" used.
Do You make Hitler look as good christian and the hand of god?

it is not at all like Mein Kampf which draws only indirectly from Christian anti-semitism, it is however a christian viewpoint of very long standing that only recently (20th century) has gone out of favour