Russia to Shift to Mostly Volunteer Army

CCIP · 07-08-11, 09:40 AM

The Dedovschina and other problems are not exaggarated at all. Compulsory military service and its inherently terrible conditions in Russia (made only worse by corruption), combined with pointless and politically-dubious involvement of these volunteer troops in occasional wars, was one of the main reasons why my family chose to leave Russia and why I don't have a Russian passport. My family had seen enough of it first-hand to make that call. Not until these reforms are actually made will I be looking to restore my citizenship either.

But the issue of reform comes up perennially and never gets anywhere...

Stealhead · 07-08-11, 02:07 PM

When I was in basic the guy in the next bunk had been born in the Ukraine and moved to the US with his family to Tampa in 1991 he was very pleased to realize that the US military gives you so much gear (normally 4 full sets of BDUs,2 full sets of dress,1 dress coat,1feild jacket,2 field caps,and all the PT gear and boots) he had this **** eating grin on his face when they are passing this stuff out the whole time screaming and yelling at you I think this dude was nuts or something.We asked him later why he was so happy and he told us it was because he was being issued so much gear his old man had been in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the early 80s and he only got two complete uniforms.If you have family or friends come to your graduation you can show them your dorm and your bunk and all that guys parents where even more excited than the son was about all the gear also they where glad to see that no NCOs had kicked his face in as happens in Soviet/Russian basic.

If it was so crappy back in the 80's I am sure that things are not any better now.I just wonder if the Russian government can fix all its military problems seems like they are hoping that by simply changing the system in one way they it will some how solve it.But why are the "old school" guys gong tolerate the guys? They will just beat the **** out of them in basic and on active duty I bet.The only thing they can do is try to eliminate the bad old guard NCOs and keep the good ones they have to change the entire corp if that is possible.

The closest thing I ever witnessed to the Russian system was when one of the junior enlisted in my unit failed to show up for duty so they sent me and two SPs to go "collect" him we got him up and in uniform and I called the shop and let them know he was drunk so the SNCO told me to take him to the chow hall and make him eat breakfast at the chow our SNCO the squadron commander and the command chief master sergeant where waiting.Some where along the way in the line this guy just plopped a buttload of scrabbled eggs on his tray as he walked past the commander a Lt.Colonel the commander asked him why he did not use a plate the kid started to give some half assed remark without showing any proper respect to an officer and next thing I see the top shirt(the CCSMGT) smacked his hand on the bottom of the tray sending eggs flying all over this kid and the floor.Lets just say after he was done cleaning up the mess and went back through the line with proper forks and plate he showed the commander and everyone else proper military discipline.That was the most rapid sobering up period I have ever seen in my life and honestly he deserved it.I am sure in the Russian military the same incident would have resulted in much harsher reactions on the junior enlisted.

CCIP · 07-08-11, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

When I was in basic the guy in the next bunk had been born in the Ukraine and moved to the US with his family to Tampa in 1991 he was very pleased to realize that the US military gives you so much gear (normally 4 full sets of BDUs,2 full sets of dress,1 dress coat,1feild jacket,2 field caps,and all the PT gear and boots) he had this **** eating grin on his face when they are passing this stuff out the whole time screaming and yelling at you I think this dude was nuts or something.We asked him later why he was so happy and he told us it was because he was being issued so much gear his old man had been in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the early 80s and he only got two complete uniforms.If you have family or friends come to your graduation you can show them your dorm and your bunk and all that guys parents where even more excited than the son was about all the gear also they where glad to see that no NCOs had kicked his face in as happens in Soviet/Russian basic.

Yeah, that about covers it! And I remember a couple of cellophone videos of Russian soldiers in Georgia back in 2008 when they entered a Georgian army base (the owners left in a haste with no fighting), and they just spent minutes swearing and screaming at how the Georgians (probably not the greatest or best-equipped military in the world at that) had EVERYTHING compared to them. I mean literally just screaming in outrage at their beds and gear and living space. Likewise you can also easily find videos of Russian barrack conditions online... that's a whole different world.

In principle even the draft wouldn't be bad, but the problem is that the corruption and lack of care in the system leads to Russian conscripts being a bunch of free slave labour and/or cannon fodder living in conditions worse than prison in the best of times. There are exceptions of course, but to get into those exceptional service situations (much like getting out of serving altogether) requires having good connections and preferably some cash. If you don't have either, you're beyond screwed. My family had neither, only had an education that qualified them to emigrate to Canada as professionals, so we got out before my and my brother's tickets came up. But that's how most of the Russian conscripts end up being poor village/small town kids by and large - they have virtually no chance to get away, and it's really one of the many forces that is killing the Russian countryside these days, far out of sight of the filthy rich big city elite that are responsible for much of this corruption in the first place.

Stealhead · 07-08-11, 11:00 PM

No large nation in a time of total warfare(WWII style conflict) would be able to function without a draft it would simply be impossible.The US got rid of the draft for political reasons in 74 or 75 but yet all males must still register with Selective Service(draft) at 18 what they did was get rid of a peace time draft in a time of major conflict they would start it up again.We are just barely hanging on in a current conflicts without the draft right now as it is many guys that have served in the 2000s have been non-voluntarily sent to a warzone 3 or 4 times back in Nam you only had to go once if you got sent if you did more than one tour you did so willingly.What they do is back door draft folks who have served much more than their fair share of combat even though many guys keep going it is because they are dedicated to their fellow soldiers much more so than for any other reason.

I wonder why the poor Russians just dont over throw the ones in power if they make up most of the military what is stopping them? CCIP ever think of inspiring your former countrymen to rise up?

Krauter · 07-08-11, 11:23 PM

What happened the last time the Russians rose and and revolted...?

One of the most brutal totalitarian regimes the world has ever seen. I much prefer a disgruntled Russian Army to a Russia led by its military leaders....

Stealhead · 07-08-11, 11:34 PM

So you dont think people have the right to be free?Or because they are Russians they don't get that right?Just because that happened in 1917-20
does not mean the same thing will happen again.

You can take down a government without violence if the majority of the poor class Russian army simply supports their people the corrupt and Putin/Medvedev cant do anything to stop them.

Also Lenin and Stalin where not military men at all and they where not the only ones fighting the White Russians many other groups fighting against the Tzarists where far more moderate than Lenin and they trusted Lenin and the Bolsheviks until the war was over and they got bullets in their heads.One unfair government replaced another.

Krauter · 07-08-11, 11:39 PM

I did not imply that I thought Russians or any Ukrainians or Byelorussians for that matter shouldn't have the right to revolt against their political leaders.

I simply stated fact that the last time the Russians staged a revolution it resulted in the Soviet Union and its totalitarian regime.

All the same, I, ME, with my own opinion, would prefer the Russia we have today, compared to a Soviet Union-esque Russia led by military leaders. That's just my opinion.

07-08-11, 09:40 AM	#1
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	The Dedovschina and other problems are not exaggarated at all. Compulsory military service and its inherently terrible conditions in Russia (made only worse by corruption), combined with pointless and politically-dubious involvement of these volunteer troops in occasional wars, was one of the main reasons why my family chose to leave Russia and why I don't have a Russian passport. My family had seen enough of it first-hand to make that call. Not until these reforms are actually made will I be looking to restore my citizenship either. But the issue of reform comes up perennially and never gets anywhere... __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

07-08-11, 02:07 PM	#2
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	When I was in basic the guy in the next bunk had been born in the Ukraine and moved to the US with his family to Tampa in 1991 he was very pleased to realize that the US military gives you so much gear (normally 4 full sets of BDUs,2 full sets of dress,1 dress coat,1feild jacket,2 field caps,and all the PT gear and boots) he had this ** eating grin on his face when they are passing this stuff out the whole time screaming and yelling at you I think this dude was nuts or something.We asked him later why he was so happy and he told us it was because he was being issued so much gear his old man had been in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the early 80s and he only got two complete uniforms.If you have family or friends come to your graduation you can show them your dorm and your bunk and all that guys parents where even more excited than the son was about all the gear also they where glad to see that no NCOs had kicked his face in as happens in Soviet/Russian basic. If it was so crappy back in the 80's I am sure that things are not any better now.I just wonder if the Russian government can fix all its military problems seems like they are hoping that by simply changing the system in one way they it will some how solve it.But why are the "old school" guys gong tolerate the guys? They will just beat the ** out of them in basic and on active duty I bet.The only thing they can do is try to eliminate the bad old guard NCOs and keep the good ones they have to change the entire corp if that is possible. The closest thing I ever witnessed to the Russian system was when one of the junior enlisted in my unit failed to show up for duty so they sent me and two SPs to go "collect" him we got him up and in uniform and I called the shop and let them know he was drunk so the SNCO told me to take him to the chow hall and make him eat breakfast at the chow our SNCO the squadron commander and the command chief master sergeant where waiting.Some where along the way in the line this guy just plopped a buttload of scrabbled eggs on his tray as he walked past the commander a Lt.Colonel the commander asked him why he did not use a plate the kid started to give some half assed remark without showing any proper respect to an officer and next thing I see the top shirt(the CCSMGT) smacked his hand on the bottom of the tray sending eggs flying all over this kid and the floor.Lets just say after he was done cleaning up the mess and went back through the line with proper forks and plate he showed the commander and everyone else proper military discipline.That was the most rapid sobering up period I have ever seen in my life and honestly he deserved it.I am sure in the Russian military the same incident would have resulted in much harsher reactions on the junior enlisted. Last edited by Stealhead; 07-08-11 at 02:28 PM.

07-08-11, 11:00 PM	#4
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	No large nation in a time of total warfare(WWII style conflict) would be able to function without a draft it would simply be impossible.The US got rid of the draft for political reasons in 74 or 75 but yet all males must still register with Selective Service(draft) at 18 what they did was get rid of a peace time draft in a time of major conflict they would start it up again.We are just barely hanging on in a current conflicts without the draft right now as it is many guys that have served in the 2000s have been non-voluntarily sent to a warzone 3 or 4 times back in Nam you only had to go once if you got sent if you did more than one tour you did so willingly.What they do is back door draft folks who have served much more than their fair share of combat even though many guys keep going it is because they are dedicated to their fellow soldiers much more so than for any other reason. I wonder why the poor Russians just dont over throw the ones in power if they make up most of the military what is stopping them? CCIP ever think of inspiring your former countrymen to rise up?

07-08-11, 11:34 PM	#6
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	So you dont think people have the right to be free?Or because they are Russians they don't get that right?Just because that happened in 1917-20 does not mean the same thing will happen again. You can take down a government without violence if the majority of the poor class Russian army simply supports their people the corrupt and Putin/Medvedev cant do anything to stop them. Also Lenin and Stalin where not military men at all and they where not the only ones fighting the White Russians many other groups fighting against the Tzarists where far more moderate than Lenin and they trusted Lenin and the Bolsheviks until the war was over and they got bullets in their heads.One unfair government replaced another.