Russia to Shift to Mostly Volunteer Army

[FIREWALL]

To old school officers and NCOs it will be the end of the free ride.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Not really sure what that is so funny to be honest.Do you think that there are not plenty of Russians who would not be interested in service if they know they can make a good career of it?i am willing to bet that a much higher number of Russians per capita will enlist willingly than what we see in the US.

I think it is funny how some officers and NCOs(the bad one I bet) dont like the idea because it will mean the end of their ways sooner or later just because it is a centuries old tradtion does not mean that it is a very good idea or is the best way to do things.

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

To old school officers and NCOs it will be the end of the free ride.

It is not "funny". Most Westerners seem to think that the only reasons that Russian officers are resisting is because of "free ride", the ab or fossilized traditions, and some Russians (mostly the so-called instituniks that don't have to take actual responsibility for their proposals) agree with them. Actually the Russian officers do have a point:

Volunteer troops are more expensive, a Western estimate made back in 1990 being about 5-8 times per man (and I doubt it changed that much since then). That alone immediately creates a dilemma, because Russia does have long borders and real defense (a power projection requirement is not the same thing) requirements, a combination that's not faced by most countries using volunteer armies.

As for quality, volunteer enlisted are really only superior if:
1) They can be obtained from a reasonable grade cut of the population, both in quality and motivation. These days, the Russian conscription system gets a lot of crumbs, but so does their kontraktniki system - dubious advantage there. 8 crumbs vs 1 good soldier may be a discussion point, but 8 crumbs vs 1 is quite another.
2) They actually stay for more than one tour (which is usually 2-4 years long) so they have an experience advantage.

[Jimbuna]

I was under the impression their armed forces were far greater in number

[TLAM Strike]

I think the Russian frontier is too big to guard with a small volunteer force. Considering the new "main enemy" is going to be China they need numbers and force multiplying weapons.

[CCIP]

The Dedovschina and other problems are not exaggarated at all. Compulsory military service and its inherently terrible conditions in Russia (made only worse by corruption), combined with pointless and politically-dubious involvement of these volunteer troops in occasional wars, was one of the main reasons why my family chose to leave Russia and why I don't have a Russian passport. My family had seen enough of it first-hand to make that call. Not until these reforms are actually made will I be looking to restore my citizenship either.

But the issue of reform comes up perennially and never gets anywhere...

[Stealhead]

When I was in basic the guy in the next bunk had been born in the Ukraine and moved to the US with his family to Tampa in 1991 he was very pleased to realize that the US military gives you so much gear (normally 4 full sets of BDUs,2 full sets of dress,1 dress coat,1feild jacket,2 field caps,and all the PT gear and boots) he had this **** eating grin on his face when they are passing this stuff out the whole time screaming and yelling at you I think this dude was nuts or something.We asked him later why he was so happy and he told us it was because he was being issued so much gear his old man had been in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the early 80s and he only got two complete uniforms.If you have family or friends come to your graduation you can show them your dorm and your bunk and all that guys parents where even more excited than the son was about all the gear also they where glad to see that no NCOs had kicked his face in as happens in Soviet/Russian basic.

If it was so crappy back in the 80's I am sure that things are not any better now.I just wonder if the Russian government can fix all its military problems seems like they are hoping that by simply changing the system in one way they it will some how solve it.But why are the "old school" guys gong tolerate the guys? They will just beat the **** out of them in basic and on active duty I bet.The only thing they can do is try to eliminate the bad old guard NCOs and keep the good ones they have to change the entire corp if that is possible.

The closest thing I ever witnessed to the Russian system was when one of the junior enlisted in my unit failed to show up for duty so they sent me and two SPs to go "collect" him we got him up and in uniform and I called the shop and let them know he was drunk so the SNCO told me to take him to the chow hall and make him eat breakfast at the chow our SNCO the squadron commander and the command chief master sergeant where waiting.Some where along the way in the line this guy just plopped a buttload of scrabbled eggs on his tray as he walked past the commander a Lt.Colonel the commander asked him why he did not use a plate the kid started to give some half assed remark without showing any proper respect to an officer and next thing I see the top shirt(the CCSMGT) smacked his hand on the bottom of the tray sending eggs flying all over this kid and the floor.Lets just say after he was done cleaning up the mess and went back through the line with proper forks and plate he showed the commander and everyone else proper military discipline.That was the most rapid sobering up period I have ever seen in my life and honestly he deserved it.I am sure in the Russian military the same incident would have resulted in much harsher reactions on the junior enlisted.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

When I was in basic the guy in the next bunk had been born in the Ukraine and moved to the US with his family to Tampa in 1991 he was very pleased to realize that the US military gives you so much gear (normally 4 full sets of BDUs,2 full sets of dress,1 dress coat,1feild jacket,2 field caps,and all the PT gear and boots) he had this **** eating grin on his face when they are passing this stuff out the whole time screaming and yelling at you I think this dude was nuts or something.We asked him later why he was so happy and he told us it was because he was being issued so much gear his old man had been in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the early 80s and he only got two complete uniforms.If you have family or friends come to your graduation you can show them your dorm and your bunk and all that guys parents where even more excited than the son was about all the gear also they where glad to see that no NCOs had kicked his face in as happens in Soviet/Russian basic.

Yeah, that about covers it! And I remember a couple of cellophone videos of Russian soldiers in Georgia back in 2008 when they entered a Georgian army base (the owners left in a haste with no fighting), and they just spent minutes swearing and screaming at how the Georgians (probably not the greatest or best-equipped military in the world at that) had EVERYTHING compared to them. I mean literally just screaming in outrage at their beds and gear and living space. Likewise you can also easily find videos of Russian barrack conditions online... that's a whole different world.

In principle even the draft wouldn't be bad, but the problem is that the corruption and lack of care in the system leads to Russian conscripts being a bunch of free slave labour and/or cannon fodder living in conditions worse than prison in the best of times. There are exceptions of course, but to get into those exceptional service situations (much like getting out of serving altogether) requires having good connections and preferably some cash. If you don't have either, you're beyond screwed. My family had neither, only had an education that qualified them to emigrate to Canada as professionals, so we got out before my and my brother's tickets came up. But that's how most of the Russian conscripts end up being poor village/small town kids by and large - they have virtually no chance to get away, and it's really one of the many forces that is killing the Russian countryside these days, far out of sight of the filthy rich big city elite that are responsible for much of this corruption in the first place.