US court orders halt to gay military ban

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

How so?

The only danger would be if one over reacted as I see it.

I shared a room with a Guy for 4 years who was Gay.
He told me and I didn't mind at all and I kept his secret.
He never once approached me nor attacked me and was a very valued Mate.
He was as Strack a Trooper as I ever had the Honor to serve with.
And I'd go into Combat anywhere on this Planet with a Thousand like him
and not miss a second of sleep!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I'll betchya dollars to donuts Herr-Berbunch is in contact with a recruiter as we speak.

Hey, enlisting gays is one thing. But we don't want no dang socialist U-ro-pean redcoats in these here Murrican armed forces.

[Stealhead]

The really funny thing is that for years the policy was basically "don't ask don't tell",I know back in WWII,Korea,Vietnam they asked you straight to your face if you where gay if you said yes they kicked you out that means that the guys who where gay but wanted to serve and did not meet the "girly" or "out of control gay" stereotypes lied and said that they liked women and they never got found out by those that had the power to punish them.

The UCMJ makes sodomy illegal though I recall back in basic my instructor informed us that basically the UCMJ sodomy rule makes many things that you might do with a woman illegal as well. Someone raised his hand and said,"So my girlfriend cant give me a ***********?" the Instructor replied,
"Just don't do it in the middle of the street on base there is a reason they invented doors and bedrooms."

Anthony is a bit overly fearful about showers in basic training you are going to be surrounded by 90 or so dudes from all over the US and world(there where guys that had come from as far afield as South Africa
and the Ukraine in my flight.) from various cultures and you are going to be under so much stress no one is gong to get a hard on they will be saving that for the liberty that you get at the end of basic and there girl friend.If there happen to be any gays in your flight you will never know about it if they are gay they are not going to openly tell anyone until they get to an active duty base which is the first point in your military where you are going to be staying put long enough to find out who you can really trust and trust me you need to look out for the Airman that are dirt bags and backstabbers other trouble makers not which ones might be gay.

I can still recall there was this extremely attractive active duty girl she just an Airman First Class herself that worked in the CQ under normal conditions I'd have been a bit excited to say the least if the situation had been right but under the stress of basic I think she would have been a bit disappointed but a couple of weeks later on that liberty....that was a different story then and I was no longer technically a trainee and that hot little A1C babe was no longer off limits on Friday and Saturday I just dropped her a slick note that no TI noticed the week beforehand.

I also had friends in units that where gay or bi the gay ones never hit on any men while on duty or any men they knew to be straight on duty or off duty ever.One guy I happened to see him off base on the street with another man it was pretty clear the situation and I guess he was fearful that I was going to say that I had seen him but I did not say anything even though at that time it did really revolt me a bit at first then I figured that I got along fine with this person when I did not know so what really was the difference he seemed pretty relived that I did not tell others.This guy was very manly and I would never have guessed that he was gay other wise and I was not 100% sure until he told me a few days after I had seen him on the street.

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

Seriously, I refuse to shower with dudes who will get erections at the sight of other men.

Your high school had a gym, right? You probably already have.

I'm sure the experience was devastating.

[Anthony W.]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Your high school had a gym, right? You probably already have.

I'm sure the experience was devastating.

Nope. I went to a Catholic HS.

[Stealhead]

Then the gay to straight ratio was higher than normal I bet.


Do you honestly think that because you go to a Catholic School that there are no gay students there?You might as well reduce your phobia a bit because in any society there are going to be gay people open about it or not.I am not saying that you have to go and hug the next gay 50 year old man that you pass in the street but you could lower you worry level a bit because you are going to be around some gays even in the military so if you dont want to be around any you might as well scratch your plans on joining the military because you have no guarantee that you will not be in the presence of a gay person at some point.

By the way if you mention such fears about showering or anything like that to a Training Instructor at basic you can plan on having a pretty good chance of getting washed out of basic
because they are going to assume that something is wrong and send you to a shrink who is going to analyze you in ways that you might not like and then recommend that you get separated. I know from experience a TI heard me say that I was having trouble concentrating and I was standing in his office for 30 minutes explaining what I meant lucky for me he did not think I was wingnut they are trained to look for certain psychological signs so anything is going to get their attention.The only way that would fly is if someone else did something to you and others witnessed it as well otherwise your done.

@AngusJS it must have been it should seem.Also someone regardless of sexual orientation who gets that excited(full arousal) without any physical or indication of possible interaction from the person they are viewing(trying to stay PG13 here) is a very deprived person or very inexperienced.

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

Seriously, I refuse to shower with dudes who will get erections at the sight of other men.

Yes because obviously all gay soldiers are sex obsessed perverts who get boners the moment they see a penis. [/sarcasm]

*Facepalm*

[August]

Originally Posted by Rilder

...all gay soldiers are sex obsessed perverts...

We'll see how discrete they are once the official taboo has been removed. Personally I think that not only are you going to see a lot of problems with straights forced to bunk and shower with with gays who don't have to hide their perversion but i think you'll see enlistment and retention becoming issues as well. Then again the people driving this social experiment want the return of the draft anyways so maybe they'll get their wish.

[Betonov]

Too bad the USSR broke up and the cold war ended. At least then people were paranoid about a real threat

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

We'll see how discrete they are once the official taboo has been removed. Personally I think that not only are you going to see a lot of problems with straights forced to bunk and shower with with gays who don't have to hide their perversion but i think you'll see enlistment and retention becoming issues as well.

I would have to agree. We see the concern in this thread with Anthony.

[Feuer Frei!]

There is 1 'concerned' (if you want to call it that) person in this thread.
At the end of the day it comes down to open-mindedness and maturity.
With maturity comes acceptance and respect.
Homophobia is a concern though.
And that is a real issue.
Through ignorance and immaturity, only then will there be 'concerns'.
I think it needed to be done.
Oh, and by the way, rather than straights being forced to shower with gays, gays have been forced to shower with straights too.
But, this is not a turkish bath house we are talking about. It's about seeing things from both sides. Not just the 'straight's side.
Bugs me, that.
Some of the insinuations made are that there are gays who will immediately come out of the woodwork and sart cracking onto the straights! Laughable.
The decision to ban the ban of gays serving is not a go-ahead or a green light for the gays to suddenly think to themselves: Ooh, here we go, we can now flaunt our sexual orientations and be perverts in the showers!
Laughable. Again.

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Because one is an activity and the other is a sexual preference.

Adultery is also in the UCMJ but how often people prosecuted over that?

A sexual preference which, by definition, engages in the activity. Such was the mindset of the pre-DADT command structure.

Homosexuals were not allowed to serve openly prior to DADT. I fear that simply repealing DADT will not allow them to serve openly today.

It is my sincere hope that the command structure has evolved sufficiently to leave them the heck alone.

As to your second point, adultery, given evidence, is commonly used as a throw-away charge in spousal abuse cases and others. Kind of like gun charges in civilian courts.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by August

We'll see how discrete they are once the official taboo has been removed. Personally I think that not only are you going to see a lot of problems with straights forced to bunk and shower with with gays who don't have to hide their perversion but i think you'll see enlistment and retention becoming issues as well.

Well, you're 4 decades late with the perversion thing . The American Psychological Association removed homosexuality from their list of sexual deviations in 1973: http://www.psych.org/Departments/EDU...ts/197310.aspx

Originally Posted by August

Then again the people driving this social experiment want the return of the draft anyways so maybe they'll get their wish.

I fail to see a connection here, those look to me like 2 different topics.

[AVGWarhawk]

There is 1 'concerned' (if you want to call it that) person in this thread.

Does not matter. Once person concerned in this thread. There will be many others because of:

Through ignorance and immaturity, only then will there be 'concerns'.

And the world is loaded with immaturity. Much of the immaturity stems from the young recruit? I would say yes. Maturity comes with age. Open-mindedness follows close behind.

Homophobia

A word I never liked. Is there a word for homosexuals that are afraid of straight people?

Some of the insinuations made are that there are gays who will immediately come out of the woodwork and sart cracking onto the straights! Laughable.

Agreed.

We are asked to have some tolerance in the matter. Not asked to agree.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

We are asked to have some tolerance in the matter. Not asked to agree.

That should be nailed to every thread on this topic