Great, MY taxes at work!

[werauchimmer]

I accept that I have to pay taxes. I even accept that they are sometimes spent for things that are not of any immediate concern to me or my country. But *why* the f___k do we have to supply Isreal with submarines and pick up the tab (or at least part of it)? Thats soooo insane! After the reunification we sold military hardware to Turkey, for 1 German Mark / Tank (Thats 50Eurocent). No we give away subs to isreal. Anybody else in for a free lunch? Stand in line, its my taxes...

What am I babbling about, you ask? Check the subsim portal newsitems...

( http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/647321.html )

[Polak]

That's just FUBAR
We Poles also got a nice discount on some old tanks and airplanes
from you Germans... I must say that I symphatize with you...

[retired1212]

Stand the azzhole politicians in the line and shoot them on their genitals
If I'll start to write about the welfare system related to unemployment then it would take pages.

Just a pray even for the worst enemies: Nobody shall be unemployed.

[XabbaRus]

Is that anything to do with Germany's war guilt?

That is FUBAR, surely the Israelis can afford to pay at least half if not full cost?

Syaing that I'd like to know how much th eMoD is getting for the Type 23s we have sold to Chile.

[joea]

My comment:

Oombongo: love your sig, guess I am retarded (though I never "won" an argument here). :rotfl:

[Hellcat]

Hell were'nt those tanks up for Canada to buy as well? At this moment I don't think we have any MTB's in service

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Hell were'nt those tanks up for Canada to buy as well? At this moment I don't think we have any MTB's in service

Yeah, We mothballed our Leopard 1 fleet recently (not long after they had recieved a major upgrade I might add) and they'll be replaced by the deathtrap called the Stryker MGS, a vehicle which cannot fire over it's side without tipping over, cannot fire within 450m of exposed infantry due to the 200db sound blast created by it's muzzle brake, and is already so overweight that it's chassis will not be able to support the necessary appliqe armor to survive a hit from an RPG-7. It's excessive weight will alos severly limit it's offroad mobility.

Additionally, it will not be transportable by our C-130s as originally intended (better transportability was one of the reasons the DND wanted them in the first place), which means we'll have to use the same platforms to transport the MGS overseas (ships and rented An-124s) that we would have to use to transport the Leopards

Best part is with the Canadians, is that we bought some british subs recently. One of those subs caught fire on the way from britan back here to Canada. One of the sailors died as a result of the sub being in poor shape. The subs we bought from britan were direct decendants of the German U-boats. This shows you the technology that we bought.

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by U-552Erich-Topp

The subs we bought from britan were direct decendants of the German U-boats. This shows you the technology that we bought.

The only way they're "direct descendants" of German U-baots that I'm aware is that they're diesel-electric powered. The subs could not be considered old or outdated when we first decided to buy them, since they were comissionned into Royal Navy service from 1990-1992, and the boats were state of the art at the time; they're basically diesel versions of the Trafalgar SSNs, and were put into mothballs by the Royal Navy in 1993 because they wanted an all-nuclear sub force, not because of any problems with the boats. Now the trouble is, Chretien's own cabinet approved the deal in 1995, but Cretin himself twiddled his thumbs for 3 years before finally approving it, all the while the boats rotted without maintenenence at peirside and were canabalized for spare parts by the Royal Navy. Had we acted on the deal as soon as it was approved, we would have saved ourselves a boatload of trouble with those subs. Still, I would have much preferred we had gotten some new boats that had AIP and had ice-hardened hulls and sails, given part of our Navy's mission is to protect our sovereignty in the Arctic.

Still, they're a far sight better than the ancient "O-boats" they're replacing.

[Hellcat]

Well I can't see the point in removing our heavy units (MTB's) and replacing them with unproven tech...

Concerning the "Upholder" subs, I'm tired (very tired) of the criticism thrown their way. On paper they are a forminable design, when the refits are complete we will certainly have a much more capable sub force than what we had with the O-boats. Unless there is/was a better alternative avalible I can see no issues with the purchase once the final bugs are feretted out. Yes they were not in sound condition at time of sale BUT should it not be up to both the customer and the seller to essure that the product is ready to go?

What else could Canada do? we needed subs, we bought 'em cheap, we did'nt safety them properly, we'll pay for that mistake in the form of negitive public opinion for years to come. (can anyone remember, say the helicopter fiasco?)

Prehaps I'm going a bit strong at this point but everytime I hear someone bad mouth the "Victoria's" I just don't know what to tell them. To top that they usually say (from all the movies they've seen) that we should have nuke boats.... Like we built or have any experience in that area....

[badhat17]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Syaing that I'd like to know how much th eMoD is getting for the Type 23s we have sold to Chile.

Total cost for Chile on the T23 deal is 135 million £, however BAE will get 134 million of that for preparing them for sale so the return as far as the UK taxpayer is concerned will be One million pounds.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by werauchimmer

Anybody else in for a free lunch?

Kosher? Sure! :rotfl:

More subs! Woohoo!

Seriously, I have no idea why or how Germany agreed to these terms.

[retired1212]

Originally Posted by joea

My comment:

Oombongo: love your sig, guess I am retarded (though I never "won" an argument here). :rotfl:

Me too. I stay away from that race :rotfl:

[Skybird]

Actually German state pays a third of the total price, they said yesterday. It is idiotic, sure. It is also idiotic to sell these subs at all. I can only imagine it is to ensure the jobs in the dock by securing orders that way. But Israel has asked, no, it has DEMANDED to be given these boats for a long time, so the job-argument probably does not count. If any brimless a$$h..e of politician thinks it must be done because of some war guilt, I would like to ask him why it is my generation's duty to feel guilty for things that were comitted before we (and to a growing degree: our parents) were even born.

But without doubt Israel will continue to excuse Europeans time and again of not supporting it enough. Why be satisfied with what you get - if you can get more.

The whole Uboat-deal:

[The Avon Lady]

Support from Europe?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: