Happy Independence day!

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

So tell me, why is Independence Day celebrated on the 4th when the declaration was signed on the second?

The declaration of Independence was first signed on the 4th. However, congress voted for independence on 2 July.


Why is Independence Day celebrated on the 4th? Probably for the same reasons Christmas is celebrated on a day that Jesus was not born.

[Onkel Neal]

Jesus was born on American Independence Day? I knew it!

[Betonov]

Congress voting on independence


''We expected that the notion will pass the voting, but never so unanimously'' T. Jefferson


''We were ovestreched fighting the damn froggies, and now the colonials are acting up. In the long run I doubt we can win this mess'' an un-named British general said in response to the colonial uprising


Happy independence Yenks

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Jesus was born on American Independence Day? I knew it!

That's correct and his birthplace was the UK

[Oberon]

God is an Englishman.

In all seriousness, Happy Independence Day, hope you guys have a good one.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Jesus was born on American Independence Day? I knew it!

And Jesus spoke English. Its in the Bible.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Platapus

The declaration of Independence was first signed on the 4th. However, congress voted for independence on 2 July.

interesting, didn't know that the US declared its independence de facto on the 2nd. I guess I'll have to watch the John Adams miniseries again....
I wonder how many Americans know this fact.

Anyway: Happy Independence Day!

[Tinman764]

My mother moved to the US a while ago and this is her 1st independence day over there... she's told me that she's desperate to fly a Union Jack from her window as a "joke"... so if anyone around the Michigan area spots a Union Jack anywhere that's probably my mum - go easy on her!

Happy independence day to all you lovely people over there

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Penguin

interesting, didn't know that the US declared its independence de facto on the 2nd. I guess I'll have to watch the John Adams miniseries again....
I wonder how many Americans know this fact.

Anyway: Happy Independence Day!

It was the Lee Resolution where congress voted 12-0-1 for independence. New York changed their abstention several days later.

As for Americans knowing this. Few do and fewer care. Most do not know that the DoI was not addressed to King George but to the citizens.

It is important to remember that there were several versions of the DoI.

If one wishes to be absolutely correct (and win almost all bar bets), the document voted on 4 July 1776 was actually "A Declaration by the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled". This is what historians consider the Fair Copy or final copy that was presented to congress.

On the night of 4 July, 200 copies of the "The unanimous declaration of the thirteen United States of America" were printed up by John Dunlap. These are called the Dunlap Broadsides. That version did not have any signatures. But did have John Hancock's (as President of the Congress) and Charles Townsend's (as Secretary of the Congress) name in type. One copy (some sources say two) was sent to England.

in January, 1777 Mary Goddard printed up the first version of the DoI with names but not the signatures. This version is called the Goddard Broadside. However, not all the names that eventually ended up signing the DoI were in place for this broadside.

It should be noted that the Dunlap and the Goddard broadsides were printed in type, not hand written.

On 19 July 1776, Timothy Matlak (sometimes misnamed Matlock) was commissioned to scribe the words of the DoI in script. This is called the Engrossed copy. John Hancock signed in the center and large, not because of any claim that King George would need glasses, but more on tradition. As President of the Congress, it was appropriate that his signature would be larger and centered.

Eventually, over several years, the 56 "original" signers of the DoI signed it. Some who voted for it never signed it and some who never voted for it signed it. Such is government.

In 1820, William Stone was commissioned to engrave the Engrossed copy. It took him three years to complete this process. These versions are called the Stone engravings and are the basis for any modern reproduction of the DoI.

It may come as a surprise that few Americans today know much about the DoI, but it shouldn't. The DoI was actually a relatively unimportant document for the first 20 years. Few Americans in the late 1770's and in the 1780's knew about it and less seemed to care. When the Congress was debating the Constitution, there is no record of the DoI being discussed or referenced.

What sparked the interest in the DoI in the late 1790's? Politics. Jefferson and Adams were engaged in a vicious political battle for the 1796 term. Both political parties used the DoI as a political tool to discredit the other.

If it were not for the political bickering of Jefferson and Adams, it is possible the DoI would have faded (literally) into obscurity.

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about the DoI.

But this is why I like to celebrate 2 July as our independence day. The Lee Resolution was a single act that happened on a single day. The "signing" of the "Declaration" was an activity that took place over five years. Thomas McKean of Delaware did not sign it until 1781!

[Drebbel]

Happy Birthday USA !

[Penguin]

Wow!
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Platapus. Yup, I read it all. That's what I love subsim for: again I will go more educated into bed than I woke up (not smarter )

What I would like to add that maybe the second sentence of the declaration is the more important one in regarding people's natural rights, in my opinion the first sentence is one of the most beautiful ever written in the English language:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

[mookiemookie]

Have a happy and SAFE 4th of July!

[Takeda Shingen]

And a Happy Independence Day to all my fellow Americans!

[Growler]

Signer for Maryland, Charles Carroll of Carrolton (for whom several states have named counties and/or schools) was the last signer to die, at the age of 95.

Working tonight at USS Constellation on the Inner Harbor - hope everyone has a safe, fun Fourth!

[the_tyrant]

happy birthday USA