Gaza aid flotilla: Irish crew accuse Israel of sabotage

MH · 07-01-11, 06:46 AM

Looks like political "happy times" coming this way.

Gerald · 07-01-11, 08:09 AM

Yes, new surprises are enough to wait...

MH · 07-01-11, 09:22 AM

Another flotilla coming this way.....
Ok so let say there is an humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Palestinians in Gaza certainly don't live like average westerner but more or less like average Arab country citizen-they are poor on average.
There is lack of infrastructure lacks of jobs etc...just a basic living from agriculture and basic trade and unskilled basic industry factory work plus great unemployment.
Life sux there for most but not all

Just look at all ME countries that's the situation in most of them.
Violence:
Israel withdrew from Gaza and from surrounding settlements-its a fact.
Palestinians in gaza had an option to live peacefully as in west bank improving economy or wage war.
Flowing the withdrawal Hamas took the power violently expelled all Fatah official and began holly jihad on Israel to liberate whole Palestine.
Palestinian population in Gaza suffers-there is no doubt about it.
What confuses me why the "human rights activist" hug the hamas warmongering officials.
Why no body is calling for the terror organisation to step down and end the violence.
Why the pressure on hamas is not greater.
Why this flotila is not about hamas stepping down.
Just a few month ago terrorist rocket shooting caused so much suffering to Palestinians when evil(lol)imperialistic Israelis bombed Gaza as reprisal.
I really don't understand those "human rights activist" they go to bed with terror organisation to prove some point about Israel.
Is Israel an Apartheid country?
Its not...it also don't want to become Arab state.
We call it here "democracy on defence"
Israeli citizens Palestinians actually have the same rights as Jews.
They can work study for high education or run businesses.
Many of them live better than most Jews in Israel.
Those are the ones that chose to live instead of meddling-do something with their lives instead of making babies pray all day and scream apartheid.
They dont have same obligations to the state.
No need to serve in the Army-some chose to do so.
Some do their service volunteering in hospitals or Magen David-Israeli first aid service.
Or just go study at university when Jews go for 3 year army service.
There is a racism in Israel Jews toward Arabs and the other way around.
Taking into acout the history here is not as terrible as many think.
Certainly not endorsed by media or most(not all) government officials.

So lets say that Israeli government is stupid and stubborn(is it?)
It actually should let the flotilla pass.The "human rights activists" will hug hamas representatives and every body will be happy.
Is it the case?
Or maybe the popularity of hamas will increase the legitimacy of hamas way and its tactics will be sealed.
Is it just about weapons smuggling?

Some Irish activist said that the sabotaging the ship was "attempt of murder".
Is it?
it takes certain state of mind to say such a thing.

Gerald · 07-01-11, 09:27 AM

And as usual, you can not exclude the fabrication, of the events, although the former is hard evidence, that Israel has its finger in the pie as usual.

MH · 07-01-11, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

And as usual, you can not exclude the fabrication, of the events, although the former is hard evidence, that Israel has its finger in the pie as usual.

Ok i did not want to go that far...for obvous reasons.

Gerald · 07-01-11, 09:35 AM

Story need hardly go back so far to know what happened before, a game that constantly goes on behind the scenes.

Skybird · 07-01-11, 10:16 AM

Technically, if a blockade is announced and is valid by rules of certain treaty and international laws, the side establishing a blockad enot only can but has the legal obligation to enforce the blockade - it cannot allow any exceptions, just one single blockade runner allowed to get through would render the legality of the whole blockade immediately invalid. Also, technically the side establishing a blockade has the right to stop blockade runners not just the moment when they enter the blockaded zone, but before.

This is like I see it - and last week I heared an expert for international law commenting on the issue, confirming all the above and explicitly referring to the rules of international law for maintaining blockades, and when a blockade is legal and valid, and when not. To me, the Israeli blockade of an enemy who even describes himself as being at war with Israel, makes perfectly sense and is perfectly legal by the rules.

The organisers of this Gaza flotilla already have admitted in press conferences that they do not see their mission as bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, but to enforce a breaking of the blockade. Which would, by the legal logic of the valid legal rules, mean that the lagality of the blockade by Israel would become invalid. Therefore, Israel has no other choice than to enforce a strict blockade. And since this time there will be several ships more than last time, making it more challenging a task for the Navy to stop all vessel without sinking them by live fire, sabotaging the vessel was an to-be-expected and very reasonable option. I personally would have preferred the French solution: to sink the ships via contact mines in harbour. They did that with a Greenpeace ship once, I think it was the Rainbow Warrior, wasn't it?

TLAM Strike · 07-01-11, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I personally would have preferred the French solution: to sink the ships via contact mines in harbour. They did that with a Greenpeace ship once, I think it was the Rainbow Warrior, wasn't it?

That was the one, down in NZ.

Penguin · 07-01-11, 11:22 AM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...60&postcount=4
good post - this should be made sticky in every thread about Gaza!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I personally would have preferred the French solution: to sink the ships via contact mines in harbour. They did that with a Greenpeace ship once, I think it was the Rainbow Warrior, wasn't it?

It were no contact mines, but sticky mines...

murdering a member of the press is just a brilliant idea, that's really what Israel needs- with friends like you they don't need enemies. And don't tell me you forgot about the photo reporter on board.

You're not working for the Israeli propaganda department? They seem to need bright people like you - though they are doing a great job in ****ing up public relations by themselves... http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...legal-1.369684

07-01-11, 08:09 AM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Yes, new surprises are enough to wait... __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

07-01-11, 09:27 AM	#4
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	And as usual, you can not exclude the fabrication, of the events, although the former is hard evidence, that Israel has its finger in the pie as usual. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

07-01-11, 09:35 AM	#6
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Story need hardly go back so far to know what happened before, a game that constantly goes on behind the scenes. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

07-01-11, 10:16 AM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Technically, if a blockade is announced and is valid by rules of certain treaty and international laws, the side establishing a blockad enot only can but has the legal obligation to enforce the blockade - it cannot allow any exceptions, just one single blockade runner allowed to get through would render the legality of the whole blockade immediately invalid. Also, technically the side establishing a blockade has the right to stop blockade runners not just the moment when they enter the blockaded zone, but before. This is like I see it - and last week I heared an expert for international law commenting on the issue, confirming all the above and explicitly referring to the rules of international law for maintaining blockades, and when a blockade is legal and valid, and when not. To me, the Israeli blockade of an enemy who even describes himself as being at war with Israel, makes perfectly sense and is perfectly legal by the rules. The organisers of this Gaza flotilla already have admitted in press conferences that they do not see their mission as bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, but to enforce a breaking of the blockade. Which would, by the legal logic of the valid legal rules, mean that the lagality of the blockade by Israel would become invalid. Therefore, Israel has no other choice than to enforce a strict blockade. And since this time there will be several ships more than last time, making it more challenging a task for the Navy to stop all vessel without sinking them by live fire, sabotaging the vessel was an to-be-expected and very reasonable option. I personally would have preferred the French solution: to sink the ships via contact mines in harbour. They did that with a Greenpeace ship once, I think it was the Rainbow Warrior, wasn't it? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-01-11, 06:46 AM	#1
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	Looks like political "happy times" coming this way.

07-01-11, 09:22 AM	#3
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	Another flotilla coming this way..... Ok so let say there is an humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza certainly don't live like average westerner but more or less like average Arab country citizen-they are poor on average. There is lack of infrastructure lacks of jobs etc...just a basic living from agriculture and basic trade and unskilled basic industry factory work plus great unemployment. Life sux there for most but not all Just look at all ME countries that's the situation in most of them. Violence: Israel withdrew from Gaza and from surrounding settlements-its a fact. Palestinians in gaza had an option to live peacefully as in west bank improving economy or wage war. Flowing the withdrawal Hamas took the power violently expelled all Fatah official and began holly jihad on Israel to liberate whole Palestine. Palestinian population in Gaza suffers-there is no doubt about it. What confuses me why the "human rights activist" hug the hamas warmongering officials. Why no body is calling for the terror organisation to step down and end the violence. Why the pressure on hamas is not greater. Why this flotila is not about hamas stepping down. Just a few month ago terrorist rocket shooting caused so much suffering to Palestinians when evil(lol)imperialistic Israelis bombed Gaza as reprisal. I really don't understand those "human rights activist" they go to bed with terror organisation to prove some point about Israel. Is Israel an Apartheid country? Its not...it also don't want to become Arab state. We call it here "democracy on defence" Israeli citizens Palestinians actually have the same rights as Jews. They can work study for high education or run businesses. Many of them live better than most Jews in Israel. Those are the ones that chose to live instead of meddling-do something with their lives instead of making babies pray all day and scream apartheid. They dont have same obligations to the state. No need to serve in the Army-some chose to do so. Some do their service volunteering in hospitals or Magen David-Israeli first aid service. Or just go study at university when Jews go for 3 year army service. There is a racism in Israel Jews toward Arabs and the other way around. Taking into acout the history here is not as terrible as many think. Certainly not endorsed by media or most(not all) government officials. So lets say that Israeli government is stupid and stubborn(is it?) It actually should let the flotilla pass.The "human rights activists" will hug hamas representatives and every body will be happy. Is it the case? Or maybe the popularity of hamas will increase the legitimacy of hamas way and its tactics will be sealed. Is it just about weapons smuggling? Some Irish activist said that the sabotaging the ship was "attempt of murder". Is it? it takes certain state of mind to say such a thing.