Fleet Boat vs. U Boat

razark · 06-25-11, 06:53 PM

Again?

How about we do Titanic vs. iceberg this time? At least it would be new.

Schwieger · 06-25-11, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

Again?

How about we do Titanic vs. iceberg this time? At least it would be new.

Lol... How about Titanic vs Lusitania?

razark · 06-25-11, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwieger

Lol... How about Titanic vs Lusitania?

Either that, or we can skip straight to the part where the fleet boat boys call the u-boat boys Nazis.

Sailor Steve · 06-25-11, 09:01 PM

Yep, had the argument many times. The point about different theaters is probably the best one. Like comparing the Type VII and Type IX, which was also just done recently. One is designed for medium-range operations, and is smaller and more maneuverable, and the other is of necessity designed for extreme long range, and so has to be bigger, which makes it less maneuverable and slower to dive. On the plus side the fleet boats had refrigerators, fresh food for the entire patrol, laundry machines, lots of fresh water, none of which makes a difference in the game, but certainly made a difference to morale after two months at sea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

Either that, or we can skip straight to the part where the fleet boat boys call the u-boat boys Nazis.

Stealhead · 06-25-11, 10:32 PM

Depends on my mood really I like both about equally.When I play as a fleet boat I am running TMO as a German I play OM.The best feature about the U-boats for me would be their TDC (the one that OM has in good detail) and I also like the fact the German torpedoes are bit more powerful also they have more speed options.The German hydrophones are much better than the Americans.Downside wise the Germans have poor radar compared to the US and for me personally the U-boats having only two engines when you must charge the batteries it takes longer and slows the boat more which can be a big liability.Generally much more challenging playing as a German due to no radar early on which makes hunting harder.

Fleet Boats I like the higher torpedo load out(though the German IX has more than the US boats) Faster crash dive times (not sure why the OP thinks that the U-boats are faster the 7 is but the 9 is slower diving)No dealing with external torpedoes.Better tube layout(though in the type IX with the better torps this is somewhat nullified).Far superior radar systems and higher speeds.I do not like the TDC interface as much from certain aspects.

Never a fan of the Nazi thing when anyone who knows knows that the majority of the Grey Wolves where not members of the Nazi party and liked things like Jazz something the Nazis frowned upon they where I think the least Nazi branch of the German military.

Sailor Steve · 06-25-11, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Depends on my mood really I like both about equally.

And that's the problem I always have. If we're discussing the merits of the actual boats then there are many, many factors involved, and a true "best" is impossible to determine, both (or rather all) having their fans, with reasons ranging from appraisals of the machinery to appraisals of how they were used to just plain "I like that one best".

If we're talking about the history, I have no choice. I love to read about them all.

If we're talking about the game(s), again there's no clear choice for me. I loved Silent Service, I love AOD, I love SH1, I love SH3 and in SH4 I'll gladly play both. I usually go for a u-boat sim first, not because I like them better but because I like to start at the beginning of the war and there aren't to many fleet boats in action in 1939.

And that's my final answer.

Schwieger · 06-25-11, 11:46 PM

Makes you wonder why no one ever starts a thread IJN subs vs Fleet Boats. After all, U-boats have been discussed time and time again, no?

Platapus · 06-26-11, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

Again?

How about we do Titanic vs. iceberg this time? At least it would be new.

It was a lucky thing that iceberg survived.

Who would have thought that Murdoch was such an Iceberg hater.

Torplexed · 06-26-11, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Who would have thought that Murdoch was such an Iceberg hater.

Actually colliding with the iceberg it was a desperate maneuver on Murdoch's part to scrape these two idiots off the bow.

Ducimus · 06-26-11, 09:09 AM

The only "vs" discussion i would ever indulge is a Gato or Balao vs a Type 9C or type 9D uboat.

All other versus and comparison's are apples and oranges.

Subnuts · 06-26-11, 11:13 AM

I really wish people would read a serious technical history of conventionally-powered US submarines before indulging in these debates. John Alden's The Fleet Submarines in the United States Navy or Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945 would do just fine.

Seriously, the level of ignorance I see in these sort of threads boggles my mind. A lot of people seem unwilling or unable to understand the basic tenets and trade offs of submarine design. Forget surface speed, habitability, underwater endurance, armament, sonar and radio outfit, range, diving depth, or reserve buoyancy. There will always be those who think that the ability to dive deep was the only important factor in submarine design prior to the Nautilus.

Anthony W. · 06-26-11, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

There will always be those who think that the ability to dive deep was the only important factor in submarine design prior to the Nautilus.

Though personally I'd love to be able to outrun a destroyer... Lol

Schwieger · 06-26-11, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

I really wish people would read a serious technical history of conventionally-powered US submarines before indulging in these debates. John Alden's The Fleet Submarines in the United States Navy or Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945 would do just fine.

Seriously, the level of ignorance I see in these sort of threads boggles my mind. A lot of people seem unwilling or unable to understand the basic tenets and trade offs of submarine design. Forget surface speed, habitability, underwater endurance, armament, sonar and radio outfit, range, diving depth, or reserve buoyancy. There will always be those who think that the ability to dive deep was the only important factor in submarine design prior to the Nautilus.

Range and Speed are the precise reasons I'm a fan of the Japanese subs. If I want to go deep and evade destroyers, there's VII. For everything else, there's IJN.

JU_88 · 06-26-11, 01:16 PM

For gaming - a Uboat, just because I prefer the ATO.
In reality, I'd go with a Fleet boat (for obvious political reasons) and because my chances of survival would be better

Though I think if I were riding ANY WWII era vehicle in to combat, I'd be far too busy crapping my pants to worry about the technical specs of my given unit.

timmyg00 · 06-27-11, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwieger

Range and Speed are the precise reasons I'm a fan of the Japanese subs. If I want to go deep and evade destroyers, there's VII. For everything else, there's IJN.

Didn't help them much against the Batfish, did they?

TG

06-25-11, 06:53 PM	#1
razark Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,731 Downloads: 393 Uploads: 12	Again? How about we do Titanic vs. iceberg this time? At least it would be new. __________________ "Never ask a World War II history buff for a 'final solution' to your problem!"

06-25-11, 11:46 PM	#7
Schwieger Commodore Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: U-142 Posts: 624 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Makes you wonder why no one ever starts a thread IJN subs vs Fleet Boats. After all, U-boats have been discussed time and time again, no? __________________ Support U-Boot_HAHD: Install Dropbox Click Here & Increase The Teams Dropbox space and get 2.25GB of free online Storage space for yourself.

06-26-11, 11:13 AM	#11
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I really wish people would read a serious technical history of conventionally-powered US submarines before indulging in these debates. John Alden's The Fleet Submarines in the United States Navy or Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945 would do just fine. Seriously, the level of ignorance I see in these sort of threads boggles my mind. A lot of people seem unwilling or unable to understand the basic tenets and trade offs of submarine design. Forget surface speed, habitability, underwater endurance, armament, sonar and radio outfit, range, diving depth, or reserve buoyancy. There will always be those who think that the ability to dive deep was the only important factor in submarine design prior to the Nautilus. __________________ My Amazon.com reviews

06-25-11, 10:32 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Depends on my mood really I like both about equally.When I play as a fleet boat I am running TMO as a German I play OM.The best feature about the U-boats for me would be their TDC (the one that OM has in good detail) and I also like the fact the German torpedoes are bit more powerful also they have more speed options.The German hydrophones are much better than the Americans.Downside wise the Germans have poor radar compared to the US and for me personally the U-boats having only two engines when you must charge the batteries it takes longer and slows the boat more which can be a big liability.Generally much more challenging playing as a German due to no radar early on which makes hunting harder. Fleet Boats I like the higher torpedo load out(though the German IX has more than the US boats) Faster crash dive times (not sure why the OP thinks that the U-boats are faster the 7 is but the 9 is slower diving)No dealing with external torpedoes.Better tube layout(though in the type IX with the better torps this is somewhat nullified).Far superior radar systems and higher speeds.I do not like the TDC interface as much from certain aspects. Never a fan of the Nazi thing when anyone who knows knows that the majority of the Grey Wolves where not members of the Nazi party and liked things like Jazz something the Nazis frowned upon they where I think the least Nazi branch of the German military.

06-26-11, 09:09 AM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The only "vs" discussion i would ever indulge is a Gato or Balao vs a Type 9C or type 9D uboat. All other versus and comparison's are apples and oranges.

06-26-11, 01:16 PM	#14
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	For gaming - a Uboat, just because I prefer the ATO. In reality, I'd go with a Fleet boat (for obvious political reasons) and because my chances of survival would be better Though I think if I were riding ANY WWII era vehicle in to combat, I'd be far too busy crapping my pants to worry about the technical specs of my given unit.