22nd June 1941

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

Edit: By the way, CCIP, have you seen these films? From what I've understood, they are still pretty famous in Russia? I watched them a while ago and liked them as films, despite of some historical inaccuracies. For anyone else interested, I think you can find at least the first two parts for free in Mosfilm's website.

Yeah, they are - and I agree, even if Soviet filmography sanitizes the history in some aspects, the movies are just epic. I think that will be on my to-watch list today
(btw, the Mosfilm youtube is a brilliant thing - so many classic stuff on there in general)

***

Another thought:
Everyone always immediately thinks Russia/Russians on this event, but spare a thought also for others, especially Ukraine and Belarus. They were/are big countries in their own right (their combined population approaching that of Germany) and unlike Russia, they were completely overrun, were the sites of some of the worst atrocities and biggest battles, and next to Poland probably lost the most in that war as far as single nations go.

[STEED]

The only thing Hitler got right was the year and month, 1940 and Germany would have been bogged down quicker and 1942 Russia would be stronger. The weather for May was rain as Russia had very little road network, June was a better month.

In 1941 Hitler caught the Red Army in a period of reorganisation and all would go well in the first three weeks of the operation, once the Army Groups fanned out the problems set in, Barbarossa was lost at the battle of Smolensk that dragged on for three weeks which derailed the operation to knock Russia out of the war.

I've been reading a few books of the planning and the vital few months of the war and the more I read the more Barbarossa was a load of pants...

[Penguin]

thinking about this date and the giant bloodshed that followed gives me cold shivers.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Penguin

thinking about this date and the giant bloodshed that followed gives me cold shivers.

You and CCIP might like this post and pics on another forum I frequent.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=110008

I especially like the fact how well kept the German graves are and the "Madonna of Nagasaki" statue.

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by STEED

The only thing Hitler got right was the year and month, 1940 and Germany would have been bogged down quicker and 1942 Russia would be stronger. The weather for May was rain as Russia had very little road network, June was a better month.

In 1941 Hitler caught the Red Army in a period of reorganisation and all would go well in the first three weeks of the operation, once the Army Groups fanned out the problems set in, Barbarossa was lost at the battle of Smolensk that dragged on for three weeks which derailed the operation to knock Russia out of the war.

I've been reading a few books of the planning and the vital few months of the war and the more I read the more Barbarossa was a load of pants...

Operation Barbarossa was winnable, It would have been much better if winter preperations had been better, the russian winter was quite hard for the germans. I wouldnt say defeat was ineviable for the Germans till mid to late 43, after the major losses in the Stalingrad campaign, and its surrounding battles, and Kursk. After that, id say the German army was bled of experience. By then German industry couldn't keep up with Russian industry and training on the German part (which was very much more needed than the allies, as the Germans almost always fought outnumbered) went down hill as units needed to be filled. And as the war went on it just got worse.

BTW, nice video oberon, thats probably one of my favorite channels on youtube.