Trials to perfect the all tube firing (target course firing)

commandosolo2009 · 06-08-11, 05:07 PM

Hey sailors,

Welcome back! I was worried today becuz the server error kept on going for more than 2 hours and that got me crazy and imaginative of things such as subsim being sold, or domain has been sold, or whatever...

But with all you safe and sound here now, I abolished these thoughts as of noon. Anyways, my Pickerel was around Northwest of Borneo, when I got a taskforce near TC drop to 8x. So, the itch began and I only had 6 torpedoes left.

All I can think of now, would be a 180 shot (all tubes on one target) but the setup was near ideal, and I had to think of some modification I could do to bring all into that Fuso.

Of course 6 torpedoes might not do that good given the game damaged mechanics, but its still a good practice before assuming a new, 10-tubed boat in the future.

So this is what went down:

Please share your thoughts on what went wrong for the aft tubes, as well as the ideal bearing to fire in this particular setup. Whats the torpedo maximum gyro angle allowance (or deflection?) and how do I get aligned for such shot? Any modifications to spread salvo?

All your comments are appreciated, and once again, welcome back subsim!

TorpX · 06-09-11, 03:22 AM

I think your last two torps missed because the firing solution exceeded their maximum gyro angle. I can't remember what it is off hand, but I know its greater than 90 degrees, for the mk 14. It is different for the different models of torpedo. If you know you intend to use both bow and stern tubes, set up with the target on your beam. The lower left dial on the TDC slideout that has the arrow, will tell you what the gyro angle is at the moment (the position keeper should be on). Try for a gyro angle of near 90 deg. This will permit both bow and stern tubes to be used. Turn your boat until you get close to this. The greater the max. gyro angle of the torps, the more leeway you have with the solution, but 90 should do fine in any case.

Mush Martin · 06-09-11, 05:59 AM

I thought it was a fair run, however....

the firing sequence needs practice to smooth out the
firing. ie. you have to set depths for all tubes prior to the
shoot, all doors should be open prior to the shoot.

also it is adviseable to fire the tubes that travel furthest
(including come around time) first, ideally all fish should
hit within thirty seconds of each other but less is better
because after the first one hits the behavior of the target
changes. so late comers less likely.

in cases where your firing an obtuse angel vs. a right angle or perpendicular
shot you will need to adjust with offset angle for the trailing tubes..
however where possible timing is easier to bring together if your aimpoint
is directly abeam as this makes all torps the same duration.

good effort, keep up the good work.
M

Daniel Prates · 06-09-11, 02:27 PM

Geeez. 20 minutes video.

Mush Martin · 06-09-11, 04:49 PM

the one thing I believe I have forgotten to mention is that
there is a progressive increase in offset between torps, this
adds time to the shooting sequence, but effectively compensates
for the targets inevitable attempt to turn inside the salvo.

the idea being that you subtract a degree from each shot
after the first one.

but if your set up all the way thats not
really adding much to shooting time.

you just need to give the mind and the hands practice.

the correct offset is towards the stern of the target , ignoring
lefts and rights.

M

[edit] if you go back to the screenie sequence in that firing blind thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=11

take a good hard look at the chart in the first screenie.
running parallel
range is taken after all stop and the boat comes to proper station keeping
the circle denotes max travel range of the torps.
The intersection of the target track and the range circle
gives a hard data point for the PK to lock on and getting that right is everything
in these shots. so you aim the Oscope at the intersect point and wait for the
ship to sail through the crosshairs, once the ships waist is centered lock on and
send then fire. you need to have already refined speed etc of course.

the trick is you need to do is change your thinking from Shooting the
target to shooting the aimpoint.

Once you add in the above described offset progression
then all of it comes together.

commandosolo2009 · 06-09-11, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

I thought it was a fair run, however....

the firing sequence needs practice to smooth out the
firing. ie. you have to set depths for all tubes prior to the
shoot, all doors should be open prior to the shoot.

also it is adviseable to fire the tubes that travel furthest
(including come around time) first, ideally all fish should
hit within thirty seconds of each other but less is better
because after the first one hits the behavior of the target
changes. so late comers less likely.

in cases where your firing an obtuse angel vs. a right angle or perpendicular
shot you will need to adjust with offset angle for the trailing tubes..
however where possible timing is easier to bring together if your aimpoint
is directly abeam as this makes all torps the same duration.

good effort, keep up the good work.
M

Thanks Mush. I got the bastard down from my 4 bow torpedoes, only adjusted depth to 7 (bastard had a belt on at 6m draft, so I had a re-run and it worked. I kept the 2 aft eels for another target, but that second patrol was pretty fruitful (of course thanks to the Fuso, 50+k GRT reported sunk and all is left is to perfect. I got a new boat (USS Drum) and will keep working on those techniques.

[QUOTE=Mush Martin;1680747]

Quote:

the one thing I believe I have forgotten to mention is that
there is a progressive increase in offset between torps, this
adds time to the shooting sequence, but effectively compensates
for the targets inevitable attempt to turn inside the salvo.

the idea being that you subtract a degree from each shot
after the first one.

but if your set up all the way thats not
really adding much to shooting time.

you just need to give the mind and the hands practice.

the correct offset is towards the stern of the target , ignoring
lefts and rights.

But if I have the target and got him exactly on the PK (near ideal), I guess now would be the time to do all the attack from the attack map, maybe water-lapping scope for visual confirmation on the kill.

I'm beginning to use more of the contact det, and very drafty depth on them eels, but the gyro angle keeps hurting me. I mean ideally it should be 110 (as per O'kanes book) and most of this requires a 90 degree orientation. But for your advice, I'll do as you said, stern offset.

M

Quote:

[edit] if you go back to the screenie sequence in that firing blind thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=11

Geez. Thats the one. Good notice btw.

Oh, I forgot to tell you, it was a pretty shoot back there, and from 7 ks away.

Good hits too.

Mush Martin · 06-09-11, 06:58 PM

yeah I love to hear how marvelous I am. but serously what took
me there is the same thing that took you. You can close to prosecute
but if you can hit your mark anwhere in a nine km circle why close.

Now the truth is this wouldnt work real world with MkXIV's but it is
the basis of a shot half that length to the same effect and really
half that distance is long range for most of the war.

M

06-08-11, 05:07 PM	#1
commandosolo2009 Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Egypt Posts: 840 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	Trials to perfect the all tube firing (target course firing) Hey sailors, Welcome back! I was worried today becuz the server error kept on going for more than 2 hours and that got me crazy and imaginative of things such as subsim being sold, or domain has been sold, or whatever... But with all you safe and sound here now, I abolished these thoughts as of noon. Anyways, my Pickerel was around Northwest of Borneo, when I got a taskforce near TC drop to 8x. So, the itch began and I only had 6 torpedoes left. All I can think of now, would be a 180 shot (all tubes on one target) but the setup was near ideal, and I had to think of some modification I could do to bring all into that Fuso. Of course 6 torpedoes might not do that good given the game damaged mechanics, but its still a good practice before assuming a new, 10-tubed boat in the future. So this is what went down: Please share your thoughts on what went wrong for the aft tubes, as well as the ideal bearing to fire in this particular setup. Whats the torpedo maximum gyro angle allowance (or deflection?) and how do I get aligned for such shot? Any modifications to spread salvo? All your comments are appreciated, and once again, welcome back subsim! __________________ x.com/lexatnews

06-09-11, 05:59 AM	#3
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I thought it was a fair run, however.... the firing sequence needs practice to smooth out the firing. ie. you have to set depths for all tubes prior to the shoot, all doors should be open prior to the shoot. also it is adviseable to fire the tubes that travel furthest (including come around time) first, ideally all fish should hit within thirty seconds of each other but less is better because after the first one hits the behavior of the target changes. so late comers less likely. in cases where your firing an obtuse angel vs. a right angle or perpendicular shot you will need to adjust with offset angle for the trailing tubes.. however where possible timing is easier to bring together if your aimpoint is directly abeam as this makes all torps the same duration. good effort, keep up the good work. M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

06-09-11, 04:49 PM	#5
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	the one thing I believe I have forgotten to mention is that there is a progressive increase in offset between torps, this adds time to the shooting sequence, but effectively compensates for the targets inevitable attempt to turn inside the salvo. the idea being that you subtract a degree from each shot after the first one. but if your set up all the way thats not really adding much to shooting time. you just need to give the mind and the hands practice. the correct offset is towards the stern of the target , ignoring lefts and rights. M [edit] if you go back to the screenie sequence in that firing blind thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=11 take a good hard look at the chart in the first screenie. running parallel range is taken after all stop and the boat comes to proper station keeping the circle denotes max travel range of the torps. The intersection of the target track and the range circle gives a hard data point for the PK to lock on and getting that right is everything in these shots. so you aim the Oscope at the intersect point and wait for the ship to sail through the crosshairs, once the ships waist is centered lock on and send then fire. you need to have already refined speed etc of course. the trick is you need to do is change your thinking from Shooting the target to shooting the aimpoint. Once you add in the above described offset progression then all of it comes together. __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial Last edited by Mush Martin; 06-09-11 at 05:17 PM.

06-09-11, 06:58 PM	#7
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	yeah I love to hear how marvelous I am. but serously what took me there is the same thing that took you. You can close to prosecute but if you can hit your mark anwhere in a nine km circle why close. Now the truth is this wouldnt work real world with MkXIV's but it is the basis of a shot half that length to the same effect and really half that distance is long range for most of the war. M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

06-09-11, 03:22 AM	#2
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	I think your last two torps missed because the firing solution exceeded their maximum gyro angle. I can't remember what it is off hand, but I know its greater than 90 degrees, for the mk 14. It is different for the different models of torpedo. If you know you intend to use both bow and stern tubes, set up with the target on your beam. The lower left dial on the TDC slideout that has the arrow, will tell you what the gyro angle is at the moment (the position keeper should be on). Try for a gyro angle of near 90 deg. This will permit both bow and stern tubes to be used. Turn your boat until you get close to this. The greater the max. gyro angle of the torps, the more leeway you have with the solution, but 90 should do fine in any case.

06-09-11, 02:27 PM	#4
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Geeez. 20 minutes video.