How are mines represented or even warned from?

commandosolo2009 · 06-04-11, 08:20 AM

Hello,

I'm playing stock 1.3 with PE, 3000m bearing plotter, (unable to play OTC after uninstalling the above maybe version conflict?)

Anyways, I'm at 41, December, and back a day or two I was at Honshu, south of Yokosuka, around the bottleneck keys.

I got 2 sonar contacts, but non moving apparently. I've marked their position on the map. Are these mines? And how do you detect mines? how much are mines used in game say for 100 kms?

Armistead · 06-04-11, 10:15 AM

Geesh, why are you playing bugged 1.3, least play 1.4.

Mines can't be picked up on sonar. A few mod attempts have been made for FM sonar, but none really work.

In all versions, often planes crashed in shallow water will show a green light, as will previous sunken ships. You wouldn't see it in stock, but enemy subs will give a green light with almost no sound, cept a minor heartbeat thud thud that you can hear if you listen.

Seems in stock a few type of junks may give a green light with no sound.

Minefields vary with mods in size, depth, location and density. We have no way to pick them up, just hope you miss them.

Daniel Prates · 06-05-11, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

I got 2 sonar contacts, but non moving apparently. I've marked their position on the map. Are these mines? And how do you detect mines? how much are mines used in game say for 100 kms?

Passive sonar only shows noisy objects. It can't 'see' targets (unlike active sonar) so it is weird that mines should appear as sonar contacts.

I think that by the 1940s standards, active sonar would't do the trick too. Actually even to this day, mines and underwater terrain can only be seen by the means of a 'high frequency sonar' which is, as I understand it, a very modified type of active sonar - it does not 'ping', for starters: it emmits a silent (for our scope of hearing) high-frequency picth which allows the equipment to 'see' close objects.

But this is modern equipment and no way fleetboats had them.

It would be my diagnostics that you are facing a bug, not a mine.

Char · 06-05-11, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

In all versions, often planes crashed in shallow water will show a green light, as will previous sunken ships.

Had that happen before.Sunk a Tanker in a Convoy,And the Escorst started Depth Charging where it was floating.
After Listening to the Hydrophone,I found there was a Sound Contact making no sound.
On free cam ivestigation the Tanker that I sunk was hitting the bottom making noise and both my and the Escorts Hydrophone was picking it up!

Seeing a prime chance to attack,I hit 2 more Merchants and then ran away at Flank Speed.Meanwhile the Escorts were still Dropping Depth Charges and circling the First Tanker that I sunk.

Armistead · 06-06-11, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Passive sonar only shows noisy objects. It can't 'see' targets (unlike active sonar) so it is weird that mines should appear as sonar contacts.

I think that by the 1940s standards, active sonar would't do the trick too. Actually even to this day, mines and underwater terrain can only be seen by the means of a 'high frequency sonar' which is, as I understand it, a very modified type of active sonar - it does not 'ping', for starters: it emmits a silent (for our scope of hearing) high-frequency picth which allows the equipment to 'see' close objects.

But this is modern equipment and no way fleetboats had them.

It would be my diagnostics that you are facing a bug, not a mine.

WW2 subs did use a FM type sonar to work through mine field later war with much success..we just don't have one that works well in game.

commandosolo2009 · 06-06-11, 06:07 AM

lets all hope we dont walk into one of these, at least nowadays (

)

Daniel Prates · 06-06-11, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

WW2 subs did use a FM type sonar to work through mine field later war with much success..we just don't have one that works well in game.

Do you have some text or link to suport this? I was pretty sure that the only anti-mine equipment available during WW2 were magnetic-activation systems - meaning that aircraft or mine-sweepers would induce its premature activation by the means of a big-ass magnetic generator.

Diopos · 06-06-11, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Do you have some text or link to suport this? I was pretty sure that the only anti-mine equipment available during WW2 were magnetic-activation systems - meaning that aircraft or mine-sweepers would induce its premature activation by the means of a big-ass magnetic generator.

Link to Lockwood's "Sink 'Em All"

Search the text for "Operation Barney" and "FM sonar".

.

Daniel Prates · 06-07-11, 09:48 AM

Cool, let's check it out.

commandosolo2009 · 06-07-11, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diopos

Link to Lockwood's "Sink 'Em All"

Search the text for "Operation Barney" and "FM sonar".

.

Cheesh!! I dont know what to say. You brought a goldmine to my library.
Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Cool, let's check it out.

Certainly, but after I finish Clear the bridge!

WernherVonTrapp · 06-07-11, 01:13 PM

Hey, Solo, did you ever go and investigate those stationary sonar contacts?

I've had some strange contacts on occasion and stranger still, was what I found when I investigated them. I inevitably chalked them up to a bug of some sort (mod conflicts, etc.) but, on one occasion, I had two similar stationary contacts near the Bismarck Sea. When I went to investigate, I found two Shiratsuyu DDs sitting (literally) on the surface with their screws out of the water, spinning feverishly.

On another occasion, (different career) it was a single Zinbu Maru with it's prop out of the water. I subsequently sank this one with my deck gun.

Daniel Prates · 06-08-11, 02:30 PM

Hey maybe it's that phantom uboat skipper that would eventually appear in episodes of "voyage to the bottom of the sea!"

I'm sure admiral nelson defeated this fellow at least a couple of times, but who knows? Maybe he's back.

CptChacal · 06-09-11, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Do you have some text or link to suport this? I was pretty sure that the only anti-mine equipment available during WW2 were magnetic-activation systems - meaning that aircraft or mine-sweepers would induce its premature activation by the means of a big-ass magnetic generator.

Hellcats of the sea
Admiral Charles Lockwood
http://www.amazon.com/Hellcats-Sea-C.../dp/0553270591
The whole book is about Operation Barney.
Nice interesting read.

06-04-11, 08:20 AM	#1
commandosolo2009 Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Egypt Posts: 840 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	How are mines represented or even warned from? Hello, I'm playing stock 1.3 with PE, 3000m bearing plotter, (unable to play OTC after uninstalling the above maybe version conflict?) Anyways, I'm at 41, December, and back a day or two I was at Honshu, south of Yokosuka, around the bottleneck keys. I got 2 sonar contacts, but non moving apparently. I've marked their position on the map. Are these mines? And how do you detect mines? how much are mines used in game say for 100 kms? __________________ x.com/lexatnews

06-06-11, 06:07 AM	#6
commandosolo2009 Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Egypt Posts: 840 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	lets all hope we dont walk into one of these, at least nowadays () __________________ x.com/lexatnews

06-07-11, 01:13 PM	#11
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Hey, Solo, did you ever go and investigate those stationary sonar contacts? I've had some strange contacts on occasion and stranger still, was what I found when I investigated them. I inevitably chalked them up to a bug of some sort (mod conflicts, etc.) but, on one occasion, I had two similar stationary contacts near the Bismarck Sea. When I went to investigate, I found two Shiratsuyu DDs sitting (literally) on the surface with their screws out of the water, spinning feverishly. On another occasion, (different career) it was a single Zinbu Maru with it's prop out of the water. I subsequently sank this one with my deck gun. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

06-04-11, 10:15 AM	#2
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Geesh, why are you playing bugged 1.3, least play 1.4. Mines can't be picked up on sonar. A few mod attempts have been made for FM sonar, but none really work. In all versions, often planes crashed in shallow water will show a green light, as will previous sunken ships. You wouldn't see it in stock, but enemy subs will give a green light with almost no sound, cept a minor heartbeat thud thud that you can hear if you listen. Seems in stock a few type of junks may give a green light with no sound. Minefields vary with mods in size, depth, location and density. We have no way to pick them up, just hope you miss them.

06-07-11, 09:48 AM	#9
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Cool, let's check it out.

06-08-11, 02:30 PM	#12
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Hey maybe it's that phantom uboat skipper that would eventually appear in episodes of "voyage to the bottom of the sea!" I'm sure admiral nelson defeated this fellow at least a couple of times, but who knows? Maybe he's back.