What is Islam's Gulen movement?

[Gerald]

Sky .. a live and mobile libraries,

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

Sky .. a live and mobile libraries,

Ah no, just by chance knowing about it a bit. It got pretty widespread in Germany, without anybody noticing it, globally probably far more influential than the Mili Görus movement which is more focussing on certain hotspots in the world like Germany, but not even half as known. Most people you ask usually never heared of Gulen, or do not care - which makes it's spreading so dangerous and unopposed. Most people do not critically question their surface. It's true that for example they prfeer to build schools over building mosques - but one has to know that this is in order to educate Muslims better to defend Islam against opposition in hosting nations, and to enforce it in ways that are not physically violent, but by debate that should neutralise the opposition to Islam over its own values of freedom and democracy. Still, Gulen in the end argues for the establishing of a Shariah-basing value system, which makes him an extremely clever orthodox, but still a an orthodox.

The movement is spreading rapidly amongst Turks living in Germany. So do the ultranationalistic Turkish Grey Wolves, and Mili Görus. They all have close ties to the Turkish ministry of religion, and the AKP circles around Erdoghan & Gang.

Several critical ex-Muslim academics and orientalists as well as apostates attack Gulen movement ferociously. They sometimes compare Gulen to an Islamic Scientology, or a secret organisation of the Turkish state comparing to Opus Dei. To some part I agree, there are similiarities, though Gulen Movement is no 100% equivalent to any of the two.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ah no, just by chance knowing about it a bit. It got pretty widespread in Germany, without anybody noticing it, globally probably far more influential than the Mili Görus movement which is more focussing on certain hotspots in the world like Germany, but not even half as known. Most people you ask usually never heared of Gulen, or do not care - which makes it's spreading so dangerous and unopposed.

Good .. I appreciate your comment about this, and it's always good to get info from you,

[Skybird]

I just added a bit.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I just added a bit.

Yeah ... but it is good and extends the value of the thread,

[tater]

What the movement says about apostasy or women would be all I'd need to hear to decide how hateful it is. So what do they think about apostasy?

Like any other set of ideas, there should be no "special" place where ideas are respected without being fully examined. Saying that Muhammad was god's prophet requires every bit as much proof as saying F=GmM/r^2 does.

[Gerald]

[Skybird]

Tater,

"hateful" you said. It is more diofficult than just this, this is no Hezbollah type of schozophrenia to feed the poor and maintain hostials while supporting terrorism on the other side. Gulen is different, and not that obviously violent. The abuse lies not in violant acts and terror, but infiltrating people'S mind and infesting it with Islamic values with a smile on their face, and making Islam en vogue in public general opinion and perception by relabelling its values while not changing their content at all. Do not think in terms of violent jihad here.

The Gulen movement subsidises a wide range of social activities, from financially helping students to running schools, hospital staff, also media and TV channels. It attracts to many mainstream Muslims becasue it seems not to focus on the institutions of relgion, and mosque building. However, if you want to benefit from helps and assistances and subsidies by Gulen, you need to agree to live a strict Muslim life basing on tight and strict Islamic rules, and you are asked for daily participation in group discussions of Islamic ideas and Sharia concepts as well as Gulen'S ideas, as well as conducting your daily prayers and participating in group prayers as well. The movement bases on Sharia concepots and Gulen'S descriptiuns of these, and from what I have red from Gulen longer time ago (which was a commented academic analysis by I think an Egyptian professor quoting him in depth), Gulen defends the restrictive and supressive views of Islam on women as well as the demand of Islam to claim dimoinance in all the world, which is to be acchieved not by violence or terror, but turning Muslims by education into successful people that can influence their social enviuronment to turn Islamic due to their success and social prestige.

It is jihad by individual social success stories that should be enabled by education of people that includes both profane competence (in a profession for example, as well as the customs and ways of living the individual is emebbeded in in his living place) as well as competence in arguing in defence for Islamic worldviews, to outtalk oppoosing views. The goal nevertheless is the Islamisation of societies, and the spreading of Islam, in its practical implementation and orientation defined and understood on the basis of Sharia.

It is very deceptive, and seems to present - on the surface - right that smiling friendly face of Islam that uncritical Westerns always want to see in Islam. Nevertheless, below this shiny surface, the intention still is rigid, determined and carried by supremacism, and is supressive on tolerance and women. As I said: the basis is Sharia's views and values. It is easy to get blinded and to forget this when reading about Gulen movement's "modern" appearance. It is not modern, just very deceptive and infiltrating in its clever ways of trying to ensure its goals.

Also, never ignore this, Gulen is a secret organisation that is very very closely associated with the Turkish state. It is a tool of Turkish foreign policies to widen Turkish in fluence, and Islamic influence, in other countries.