I can see ships, but the crew can't

WernherVonTrapp · 05-22-11, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic452

I ran into that many times in V1.4 not so much in 1.5 with TMO.
It's the pits if you're using auto targeting 'cause you can't shoot.
You can't even use a constant bearing shoot.

Magic

Yeah you can. Well, sort of, that is. Just point your scope to any bearing, press the Target Lock key and fire. Your torp will travel the route of your target lock, even if there's no target there.

Stealhead · 05-22-11, 07:19 PM

You dont even need to lock at all with auto target you just simply press fire any time and the torps will travel on to that heading that the scope or TBT is centered on(meaning your are moving the center of the scope yourself no lock following on its own).In fact when I used to play auto-target I found that not even locking on the target and simply firing at points on the ship gave me better hit ratios than firing with a lock.

IIRC even if you cant "see" the ship(no colored arrow over it with auto-target) you can still fire towards its bearing.I for sure recall doing what you say but with out locking the target.

Daniel Prates · 05-23-11, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

IIRC even if you cant "see" the ship(no colored arrow over it with auto-target) you can still fire towards its bearing.I for sure recall doing what you say but with out locking the target.

Not only that, you can also input manually all the TDC data, according to your best guesses.

Do you think real skippers had a 'lock' option? the best they could to, I guess, was to have an officer constantly pointing the scope to the target, assuming he wasn't doing that himself. All the data TDC need in inputed either manually, or directly by the sub's systems. Bearing on the target is inputed directly by the scope. Rotate it 10 degrees to the left, and the TCD considers the target to be 10 degrees to the left.

Let's digress a little more. A corolary of this argument is this: if you are in good visual situation, and has already every TDC data plotted in, you can 'unlock' the target and aim for an specific part of the target with your scope.

WernherVonTrapp · 05-23-11, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Not only that, you can also input manually all the TDC data, according to your best guesses.

Do you think real skippers had a 'lock' option? the best they could to, I guess, was to have an officer constantly pointing the scope to the target, assuming he wasn't doing that himself. All the data TDC need in inputed either manually, or directly by the sub's systems. Bearing on the target is inputed directly by the scope. Rotate it 10 degrees to the left, and the TCD considers the target to be 10 degrees to the left.

Let's digress a little more. A corolary of this argument is this: if you are in good visual situation, and has already every TDC data plotted in, you can 'unlock' the target and aim for an specific part of the target with your scope.

Perhaps I'm confused here because GreyBeard's problem is that he can't get a visual on the ship. Are you referring to course and speed through sonar only?

Dogfish40 · 05-23-11, 11:22 AM

Hi Greybeard,
Last week I had the same problem with a heavy fog which lasted for days, if you can't get the crew or the ship to recognize on the nav-map, surface and bag that bad boy with the deck gun. I sunk two that way. They can't see you either (hopefully), and the fun part is, you have to man the gun yourself! Whoopie!!

Also, this begs another question which I think is appropriate here, and that is, if you have auto-targeting on, can't I enter the TDC data manually anyway?? So if you're in this situation and can't get the game to read the ship, you should be able to enter the data from the sonar station manually, right?
Good Hunting!!
D40

Daniel Prates · 05-23-11, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

Perhaps I'm confused here because GreyBeard's problem is that he can't get a visual on the ship. Are you referring to course and speed through sonar only?

No, he's saying that he CAN see the ships (even if only their sillouette or something like that) but the crew can't, so he also can't lock on them.

I have the same situation sometimes. In low visibility conditions, though that small colorful triangle appears when i pass the scope by, the lock won't mantain itself for more than a few moments (a second or so). It then un-locks and I have to repeat the same procedure again.

WernherVonTrapp · 05-23-11, 01:25 PM

There's only two reasons that I can think of (off the cuff) why you'd get a triangle (in the fog) which subsequently disappears. If the ship is broadside for a moment and the triangle appears, then the ship turns, blading itself and creating a smaller profile, then the triangle disappears. This can occur also during low light conditions without fog.

The second would be commensurate with the ship passing briefly into, and then out of, visual range while you're at a 90 degree angle to the target. The reason I point to (any) bearing and lock is because, if your sonar man calls out (or is continuously calling out) the target's position, your torp will travel the last known sonar path if you don't lock onto a bearing.

Stealhead · 05-23-11, 01:28 PM

For me unless the watchmen see the vessel I will not be able to lock onto it until they do I think this is the OP issue and there is not really a way to fix this all I can say is from playing stock RFB and TMO that TMO seems to have less occurrence of this than any other.I think it has more to do with the environmental mod and tweaks to crew "vision".

As to the whole "lock" thing well they sort of did have a lock because whomever was running the TDC could update the bearings the TDC gave(after inputting the target data that is) for the person manning the scope so the game is simulating this as best it can it is giving you an extra set of hands so to speak so you can do other things and not have to keep moving the scope to follow the target.

In a real sub the skipper had an entire crew of men to help him attack subs he was just the head of the chain and made the decisions if SH4 was a true simulator like what real US Navy submariners use it would take 20 subsim members to play the game maybe more.

And you can not pick up enemy folks in the water.

P.S.
Thanks for hijacking my thread.

I suspect you'd get more answers if you start your own thread.

What is the deal with that? an off shoot question/related topic happens all the time here on subsim better get over thread ownership real fast we arent too serious round here.

GreyBeard · 05-23-11, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Not only that, you can also input manually all the TDC data, according to your best guesses.

Do you think real skippers had a 'lock' option? the best they could to, I guess, was to have an officer constantly pointing the scope to the target, assuming he wasn't doing that himself. All the data TDC need in inputed either manually, or directly by the sub's systems. Bearing on the target is inputed directly by the scope. Rotate it 10 degrees to the left, and the TCD considers the target to be 10 degrees to the left.

Let's digress a little more. A corolary of this argument is this: if you are in good visual situation, and has already every TDC data plotted in, you can 'unlock' the target and aim for an specific part of the target with your scope.

Oh man! That's entirely too much work for me. These days I only play the lazy mans way - auto mode!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Hi Greybeard,
Last week I had the same problem with a heavy fog which lasted for days, if you can't get the crew or the ship to recognize on the nav-map, surface and bag that bad boy with the deck gun. I sunk two that way. They can't see you either (hopefully), and the fun part is, you have to man the gun yourself! Whoopie!!

Also, this begs another question which I think is appropriate here, and that is, if you have auto-targeting on, can't I enter the TDC data manually anyway?? So if you're in this situation and can't get the game to read the ship, you should be able to enter the data from the sonar station manually, right?
Good Hunting!!
D40

That's an interesting idea about using the deck gun. In fact, I finished off a merchant in exactly that manner. I had already put one torpedo into him and then lost the ability to lock on target, so I surfaced and manually used the deck gun to sink it while I could still see it even though my crew couldn't.

I wonder if this has to do with crew experience? This is only their second patrol.

05-23-11, 11:22 AM	#5
Dogfish40 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: LA Area, Central coast, California Posts: 1,023 Downloads: 827 Uploads: 0	Hi Greybeard, Last week I had the same problem with a heavy fog which lasted for days, if you can't get the crew or the ship to recognize on the nav-map, surface and bag that bad boy with the deck gun. I sunk two that way. They can't see you either (hopefully), and the fun part is, you have to man the gun yourself! Whoopie!! Also, this begs another question which I think is appropriate here, and that is, if you have auto-targeting on, can't I enter the TDC data manually anyway?? So if you're in this situation and can't get the game to read the ship, you should be able to enter the data from the sonar station manually, right? Good Hunting!! D40 __________________ *Dogfish40*

05-23-11, 01:25 PM	#7
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	There's only two reasons that I can think of (off the cuff) why you'd get a triangle (in the fog) which subsequently disappears. If the ship is broadside for a moment and the triangle appears, then the ship turns, blading itself and creating a smaller profile, then the triangle disappears. This can occur also during low light conditions without fog. The second would be commensurate with the ship passing briefly into, and then out of, visual range while you're at a 90 degree angle to the target. The reason I point to (any) bearing and lock is because, if your sonar man calls out (or is continuously calling out) the target's position, your torp will travel the last known sonar path if you don't lock onto a bearing. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

05-22-11, 07:19 PM	#2
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	You dont even need to lock at all with auto target you just simply press fire any time and the torps will travel on to that heading that the scope or TBT is centered on(meaning your are moving the center of the scope yourself no lock following on its own).In fact when I used to play auto-target I found that not even locking on the target and simply firing at points on the ship gave me better hit ratios than firing with a lock. IIRC even if you cant "see" the ship(no colored arrow over it with auto-target) you can still fire towards its bearing.I for sure recall doing what you say but with out locking the target.

05-23-11, 01:28 PM	#8
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	For me unless the watchmen see the vessel I will not be able to lock onto it until they do I think this is the OP issue and there is not really a way to fix this all I can say is from playing stock RFB and TMO that TMO seems to have less occurrence of this than any other.I think it has more to do with the environmental mod and tweaks to crew "vision". As to the whole "lock" thing well they sort of did have a lock because whomever was running the TDC could update the bearings the TDC gave(after inputting the target data that is) for the person manning the scope so the game is simulating this as best it can it is giving you an extra set of hands so to speak so you can do other things and not have to keep moving the scope to follow the target. In a real sub the skipper had an entire crew of men to help him attack subs he was just the head of the chain and made the decisions if SH4 was a true simulator like what real US Navy submariners use it would take 20 subsim members to play the game maybe more. And you can not pick up enemy folks in the water. P.S. Thanks for hijacking my thread. I suspect you'd get more answers if you start your own thread. What is the deal with that? an off shoot question/related topic happens all the time here on subsim better get over thread ownership real fast we arent too serious round here.