Starforce Posts Their objections to Toms Hardware Article - Page 12

Col7777 · 11-10-05, 05:21 AM

OK so we all understand that a software company needs to protect his goods from piracy and he needs to try and stop it somehow, fair enough...
I said this in an earlier post, he may put some kind of protection in there but if it fouls up some peoples PC's then eventually the honest buyer won't be buying for fear of something happening to his PC, the only people who will be interested will be the pirates.

We have read on other forums not just this one of these issues so it is widespread, people are having problems through these protection methods, some are PC literate and can resolve the problems, but a lot are not and wonder what has happened to their PC then probably pay a small fortune to get it fixed, all because they bought a game.

Another point I think worth mentioning, some packages say they put a warning on the label about what might happen, not many read it because it is in small print in the bottom corner or not even on the label at all.
If it was printed in BIG BOLD LETTERS how many would buy, I know I wouldn't?

The Avon Lady · 11-10-05, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col7777

Another point I think worth mentioning, some packages say they put a warning on the label about what might happen, not many read it because it is in small print in the bottom corner or not even on the label at all.
If it was printed in BIG BOLD LETTERS how many would buy, I know I wouldn't?

It should say COPY PROTECTION MAY KILL YOUR PC, in big letters, as is prominently displayed in the UK on tobacco prooducts.

Just watch their market share drop to nill.

Herr Karl · 11-10-05, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOFBear

I have sporadically experienced the same problem as Herr Karl. Got it with SHIII and also with Brother's in Arms Earned in Blood. I have the problem when inserting the cd. If it's already in the drive and I hit the game icon it works.

Yes, same here SOFBear...any new software and I have to go to "my computer' and initiate the drive. Not a big deal, but really, thats
unacceptable that the Starforce driver creates this issue in the first
place. Developers and crackers are at war. The PC platform is suffering because of it and developers do not want to put their hard work out there just to have it ripped off. It`s not that there isn`t a market for the PC platform, it`s that developers do not have to deal with the possiblity of being ripped off as readily by users of the console platform...

U-214 · 11-10-05, 11:23 AM

I haven't noticed any problem with this copy protection on my computer,but since i saw about SONY,i received this Kaspersky newsletter today at work:

1. New backdoor program uses Sony rootkit

Kaspersky Lab, a leading developer of secure content management
solutions that protect against viruses, Trojans, worms, spyware, hacker
attacks and spam announces that a new backdoor program has been
detected. This is the first malicious program to use Sony rootkit
technology to hide its presence in the system.

The media has already written extensively about how Sony BMG applied
rootkit technology to hide and protect DRM components used to prevent
disks from being copied. One highly unfortunate effect of Sony's
decision to use this rootkit was the possibility that malicious programs
might implement the same technology. Kaspersky Lab virus analysts can
confirm that this has now happened.

Today a backdoor program which utilizes the rootkit technology was
detected. Kaspersky Lab classifies the program as
Backdoor.Win32.Breplibot.b. The backdoor was mass mailed using spamming
technologies, and attached to a message which uses classic social
engineering techniques to entice the recipient into launching the
attachment. The attachment allegedly contains a photograph. Once the
user launches the attached file, the backdoor code will penetrate the
victim machine.

Breplibot.b is a file 10240 bytes in size, packed using UPX. When
launching, the backdoor copies itself to the Windows system directory as
$SYS$DRV.EXE. Using this name makes it possible for the Sony rootkit
technology to be used to hide the activity of the malicious program. Of
course, the backdoor's activity will only be hidden if DRM protection,
as used on some Sony Audio CDs, functions on the victim machine.

As usual, Kaspersky Lab warns users to be careful, and not to open email
from unknown senders, or open attachments to suspicious messages.

----------------------------------------

They have gone too far with copy protections.Now one has to worry about this rootkit thing on daily basis because Sony wanted to play hacker.

Soulcommander · 11-10-05, 01:51 PM

U-214 thanks for that post! I just want to say to Gizmo, Sorry the thread is going a bit off topic....But I think we can all agree here that the Sony deal has some very closely related things that seemed relavant to the Starforce issues.

Thanks for letting us drift a bit, I felt it was important to all the gang here to know.

I just had one of the guys in the Starforce Investigation write me and wanted me to see a post at the Starforce forum. He wrote them seeking help one last time and then wrote me very upset.

Before SF deletes the post you guys should really go look at it quick!

Here it is.
I have a copy I can post too if it does get deleted by them.

http://www.star-force.com/forum/inde...opic=198&st=20

Another update related to Sony
Symantec Anti virus software will now Detect Sony's rootkit:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5...tag=zdnn.alert

Serverdaemon · 11-10-05, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

U-214 thanks for that post! I just want to say to Gizmo, Sorry the thread is going a bit off topic....But I think we can all agree here that the Sony deal has some very closely related things that seemed relavant to the Starforce issues.

Thanks for letting us drift a bit, I felt it was important to all the gang here to know.

I just had one of the guys in the Starforce Investigation write me and wanted me to see a post at the Starforce forum. He wrote them seeking help one last time and then wrote me very upset.

Before SF deletes the post you guys should really go look at it quick!

Here it is.
I have a copy I can post too if it does get deleted by them.

http://www.star-force.com/forum/inde...opic=198&st=20

Another update related to Sony
Symantec Anti virus software will now Detect Sony's rootkit:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5...tag=zdnn.alert

So, I posted on the site and will paste it here, (Since they apparently didn't like it and DELETED it!):

======================

Well I too have had problems...
I've been in contact with UBIsoft numerous times and they tell me to contact SF, which says on it's site that UBI should be contacting them,... etc.. etc... I've sent DXDiag reports, error reports from NERO, etc...

After installing SH3 by burner stopped working. Installed updated SF drivers. Uninstalled SF using removal tool. Bought Brothers in Arms. Drive would not SEE ANY disk but SH3. Litterally would not read any other disk!
Bought NEW ($90.00) multi-layer drive. Installed Brothers in Arms. Drive does not recognize any blank media.
Hmmm, begining to see a pattern here...
The drive (no matter WHAT media and I've tried a few) no longer sees any blank disk. This was a DAY OLD drive.

Now, is it possible that there is something on my system that's conflicting with SF? Sure. But WHAT?!?

And just for the record SF folks, I'm a 15 year system administrator with 9 internal Microsoft certifications so I THINK I have some handle on what I'm doing...

Serverdaemon

=================================

I'd also like to say that I really don't care for SF's rather cavalier "superior" attitude!
This whole "It seems now it is too late for you." crap might fly in the Ukraine my friend, but here in America that kind of attitude will just get you broke. (as in I won't buy your product anymore, you treat me THAT way!)

Serverdaemon

=================================

Note, some posts were removed.
Obvious ANTI SF attitude will be not tolerated here.

If you want to flame or spread false claims, please choose another forum.

kind regards alex // sf, cyberware, ucf.
=================================

Alex, I did neither yet you removed my posts. Interesting. Perhaps you thought my descriptions of problems I was having were, as you put it "false claims"?
Is THIS how you handle problems then? By simply deleting honest posts that people with problems make?

Fascinating...

Your credibility is down around the 0 mark my friend...

Serverdaemon

Serverdaemon · 11-10-05, 03:35 PM

And of course.... Alex imeadiately removed my last post and sends me this private message:

=================
if you have specific protection related question, ask here
we do not want to start flame wars
=================

To which I replied:

=================
From the looks of things, I'd say you have one whether you want it or not!

But that's not the issue and flaming was not my intent. My message was tame indeed compared to some of the others you chose not to delete...

I seriously doubt that it's the "flame" part that you object to. I think it's the posting of my problem that you wanted off the site and I'm about to prove it. I'm going to repost my first post and see if you deltete THAT one. (It certainly could not be construed as flaming!)

Let's see what your real motives are then, shall we?

Serverdaemon
===============

He left it up and is finally dialoging about the issue.
Geeesh! What you have to go through to get support on some stuff!!!

S

Herr Karl · 11-10-05, 06:46 PM

Yeah, I`ve watched the SF rep over at the SHIII forum also. Something isn`t right with those guys. It seems they are trying to deflect the "real" concerns and issues with their product.

Good Luck Server Daemon...

Soulcommander · 11-10-05, 07:10 PM

Gentleman.. I have taken note of your posts and fowarded them to Ubisoft.

Please PM me if you have any more concerns.
I too will not tolerate this. I don't blame you one bit. It happened to me too.

You can be as civil as possible and then they pull this crap. Not professional at all. We have legit complaints and they ignor them.

SC

benetofski · 11-10-05, 07:22 PM

Dont think SF is just an SH3 user issue!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...3311061963/p/3

Gizzmoe · 11-11-05, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benetofski

Dont think SF is just an SH3 user issue!

There are about 80 SF-protected games!

HereÂ´s a list of games with their copy protections:
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/gamedb.php?letter=all

Col7777 · 11-11-05, 03:23 AM

Can I jump back a few posts where the guy posted on that forum saying his drive didn't recognise blank disks?
I recently put a disk in my PC wondering if it had been written on, the PC came back saying there was no disk in the drive, is this what he means, I thought I had written to the disk but wasn't sure if the program had carried out the function as I had to leave the room?

Gizzmoe · 11-11-05, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col7777

I recently put a disk in my PC wondering if it had been written on, the PC came back saying there was no disk in the drive, is this what he means

Probably yes. Try a few things. First use a different blank CD/DVD. If that doesnÂ´t work update the CD burning software. Then try it again. Still not working? Install the SF driver update. Still not working? Use the SF removal tool. If that also doesnÂ´t help update the firmware of your drive. And just in case that this also doesnÂ´t solve the problem remove the DVD drive from the Device Manager and let Windows redetect it.

Serverdaemon · 11-11-05, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col7777

Can I jump back a few posts where the guy posted on that forum saying his drive didn't recognise blank disks?
I recently put a disk in my PC wondering if it had been written on, the PC came back saying there was no disk in the drive, is this what he means, I thought I had written to the disk but wasn't sure if the program had carried out the function as I had to leave the room?

That's exactly what mine says. "There is no disk...".
I've tried 4 different media, from cheap to expensive and it simply will not recognize it.
NOW, the drive I had before, would not read ANY disk (commercial or blank media) at ALL except for the SH3 disk. THAT was fun!!
;O(

S

Serverdaemon · 11-11-05, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col7777

I recently put a disk in my PC wondering if it had been written on, the PC came back saying there was no disk in the drive, is this what he means

Probably yes. Try a few things. First use a different blank CD/DVD. If that doesnÂ´t work update the CD burning software. Then try it again. Still not working? Install the SF driver update. Still not working? Use the SF removal tool. If that also doesnÂ´t help update the firmware of your drive. And just in case that this also doesnÂ´t solve the problem remove the DVD drive from the Device Manager and let Windows redetect it.

And if you've tried all those things like I have (sans the firmware update as it is only a week old) then do what I do which is... Err... complain loudly, but for the most part uselessly, to UBI and SF!

S

11-10-05, 05:21 AM	#166
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	OK so we all understand that a software company needs to protect his goods from piracy and he needs to try and stop it somehow, fair enough... I said this in an earlier post, he may put some kind of protection in there but if it fouls up some peoples PC's then eventually the honest buyer won't be buying for fear of something happening to his PC, the only people who will be interested will be the pirates. We have read on other forums not just this one of these issues so it is widespread, people are having problems through these protection methods, some are PC literate and can resolve the problems, but a lot are not and wonder what has happened to their PC then probably pay a small fortune to get it fixed, all because they bought a game. Another point I think worth mentioning, some packages say they put a warning on the label about what might happen, not many read it because it is in small print in the bottom corner or not even on the label at all. If it was printed in BIG BOLD LETTERS how many would buy, I know I wouldn't? __________________ Silent and Violent

11-10-05, 03:35 PM	#172
Serverdaemon Loader Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kirkland, WA. Posts: 81 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	And of course.... Alex imeadiately removed my last post and sends me this private message: ================= if you have specific protection related question, ask here we do not want to start flame wars ================= To which I replied: ================= From the looks of things, I'd say you have one whether you want it or not! But that's not the issue and flaming was not my intent. My message was tame indeed compared to some of the others you chose not to delete... I seriously doubt that it's the "flame" part that you object to. I think it's the posting of my problem that you wanted off the site and I'm about to prove it. I'm going to repost my first post and see if you deltete THAT one. (It certainly could not be construed as flaming!) Let's see what your real motives are then, shall we? Serverdaemon =============== He left it up and is finally dialoging about the issue. Geeesh! What you have to go through to get support on some stuff!!! S __________________ \"Never interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake...\" ~N. Bonaparte

11-10-05, 07:22 PM	#175
benetofski Helmsman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Port Perry, Canada Posts: 106 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Dont think SF is just an SH3 user issue! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...3311061963/p/3 __________________ OLt.z.S.Benetschik (Benetofski) [IMG][/IMG] \"U-bootwaffe - eine Gemeinschaft zusammengebracht durch Schicksal\"

11-11-05, 03:23 AM	#177
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	Can I jump back a few posts where the guy posted on that forum saying his drive didn't recognise blank disks? I recently put a disk in my PC wondering if it had been written on, the PC came back saying there was no disk in the drive, is this what he means, I thought I had written to the disk but wasn't sure if the program had carried out the function as I had to leave the room? __________________ Silent and Violent

11-10-05, 11:23 AM	#169
U-214 Gunner Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I haven't noticed any problem with this copy protection on my computer,but since i saw about SONY,i received this Kaspersky newsletter today at work: 1. New backdoor program uses Sony rootkit Kaspersky Lab, a leading developer of secure content management solutions that protect against viruses, Trojans, worms, spyware, hacker attacks and spam announces that a new backdoor program has been detected. This is the first malicious program to use Sony rootkit technology to hide its presence in the system. The media has already written extensively about how Sony BMG applied rootkit technology to hide and protect DRM components used to prevent disks from being copied. One highly unfortunate effect of Sony's decision to use this rootkit was the possibility that malicious programs might implement the same technology. Kaspersky Lab virus analysts can confirm that this has now happened. Today a backdoor program which utilizes the rootkit technology was detected. Kaspersky Lab classifies the program as Backdoor.Win32.Breplibot.b. The backdoor was mass mailed using spamming technologies, and attached to a message which uses classic social engineering techniques to entice the recipient into launching the attachment. The attachment allegedly contains a photograph. Once the user launches the attached file, the backdoor code will penetrate the victim machine. Breplibot.b is a file 10240 bytes in size, packed using UPX. When launching, the backdoor copies itself to the Windows system directory as $SYS$DRV.EXE. Using this name makes it possible for the Sony rootkit technology to be used to hide the activity of the malicious program. Of course, the backdoor's activity will only be hidden if DRM protection, as used on some Sony Audio CDs, functions on the victim machine. As usual, Kaspersky Lab warns users to be careful, and not to open email from unknown senders, or open attachments to suspicious messages. ---------------------------------------- They have gone too far with copy protections.Now one has to worry about this rootkit thing on daily basis because Sony wanted to play hacker.

11-10-05, 01:51 PM	#170
Soulcommander Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	U-214 thanks for that post! I just want to say to Gizmo, Sorry the thread is going a bit off topic....But I think we can all agree here that the Sony deal has some very closely related things that seemed relavant to the Starforce issues. Thanks for letting us drift a bit, I felt it was important to all the gang here to know. I just had one of the guys in the Starforce Investigation write me and wanted me to see a post at the Starforce forum. He wrote them seeking help one last time and then wrote me very upset. Before SF deletes the post you guys should really go look at it quick! Here it is. I have a copy I can post too if it does get deleted by them. http://www.star-force.com/forum/inde...opic=198&st=20 Another update related to Sony Symantec Anti virus software will now Detect Sony's rootkit: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5...tag=zdnn.alert

11-10-05, 06:46 PM	#173
Herr Karl Medic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle,WA/Dutch Harbor,AK Posts: 163 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I`ve watched the SF rep over at the SHIII forum also. Something isn`t right with those guys. It seems they are trying to deflect the "real" concerns and issues with their product. Good Luck Server Daemon...

11-10-05, 07:10 PM	#174
Soulcommander Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gentleman.. I have taken note of your posts and fowarded them to Ubisoft. Please PM me if you have any more concerns. I too will not tolerate this. I don't blame you one bit. It happened to me too. You can be as civil as possible and then they pull this crap. Not professional at all. We have legit complaints and they ignor them. SC