Torpedoes going under ship

Stealhead · 05-08-11, 07:58 PM

Im not sure how you got those results the contact influence should be worse not better than contact in game as they where in real life in fact the subs where commanded some time in early 43 once the issues with magnetic where confirmed not use that mode at all later they simply did come with magnetic mode at all.

Early war until 43' you should not waste the time of using the contact influence only use the contact mode and set the depth shallow also try to use the low speed setting(unless using mk.23s) that will give you the highest chances of not getting duds deep runners and premature explosions.

No mater what though if you have duds on there is a chance that any type of torpedo will dud out but you can reduce your chances of getting one.Just think how a real sub crew must have felt early in the wat when in some cases not a single torpedo worked correctly.Personally in game I hate the true duds that hit but don't explode the most huge bummer.I have not used a set a torpedo to magnetic in SH4 for several years to be honest with TMO and duds on doing so will result in frustration and lot of yelling "here I am shoot me!!" to the IJN without doing any real damage to them first.

Look at the realistic torpedo setting threads on the site and follow the guide lines myself I'd say I only get one maybe two duds on most patrols rarely I might get five or six.

etheberge · 05-08-11, 08:44 PM

In my last patrol I encountered a lightly escorted northbound convoy east of Luzon on Christmas eve 1941. Spent a good 5 hours game time doing an end around and getting in perfect firing position ahead, no escorts in front of the convoy at all, the two escorts were hanging out at the back end of the convoy. This was all set to be a slaughter.

I fired off my entire load of 16 torps at the leading ships in 2-3 attacks before the two escorts cornered me.

Results:

4 deep-runners went right under the target's keel without exploding.
2 prematures
6 duds
3 misses
1 hit, ship didn't sink and kept going.

Newport Torpedo Station probably heard me swearing at them all the way over in Rhode Island.

Stealhead · 05-08-11, 10:38 PM

The Mk.14 until fully fixed later in the war ran about 10 feet deeper than set on average(notice "about" they might run deeper than +10 or less you cant know for sure) which was one reason that the magnetic mode failed (running too deep to sense the ships field) the other problem was that the magnetic exploder itself failed often to detect magnetic fields properly in the first place and got thrown off by all sorts of things causing it to explode early because they ran only a few highly controlled unrealistic tests with them before the war.There are tons of articles on the web about the whole Mk.14 affair.

Another issue was that the torpedoes contact detonator tended to get crushed before it was able to fully set it self off or was unable to set off at all. This was cured by using only the low speed setting and avoiding certain AOBs. So there where 3 different things wrong with the original mk.14 in its original form and they where not confirmed until 1943 after tests that Lockwood ordered.

Because of deep running and the flaky magnetic dets this makes the failure rate of a magnetic mode mk.14 pretty high so just dont bother with them.Best bet set you torps to around 5 feet contact low speed that way they are most likely to go boom against a ships hull.

Daniel Prates · 05-09-11, 09:56 AM

What about the Mk 23? Is it significantly better in any way? Or is it just the Mk14 plain and simple, without the option to switch to lower speed/greater range?

Stealhead · 05-09-11, 02:44 PM

In game they are much the same besides the 23 having only the high speed setting.I think they have the same failure rate as well so again dont bother with keel shots and set the depth shallow and watch the AOB you cant avoid the high speed detonator getting crushed before setting the main charge.I am not sure though I never use Mk.23s to be honest I run with mk.14s and mk.18s once available.

If you are running stock it will say in the mk.23 data that it has more torpex IIRC that is incorrect they have the amount as the mk.14 in RFB and TMO this typo has been corrected.Basically the Mk.23 was/is a 14 with no low speed mode.

By the way the electric mk.18s they will not actually go 4,000 yds I forget the true max range for them but I avoid using them on anything over 3,700 yds away or sailing away from that range.
Personally I prefer the Mk.14 because the low speed setting lowers your dud rate and allows the torp to go farther away allowing it to have a chance of hitting another ship if you miss
the targeted ship(I have seen this a few times and it is hilarious) you wont get that as likely only a 4,500 yd range but you will with 9,000yds to play with also you are allowed better stand off the 14s give you more options and I like the 18s for daytime attacks because they leave no wake to spot.Generally the other torps are not worth the coin.Though I do sometimes carry a mk.27 to kill pursuing escorts.

Daniel Prates · 05-09-11, 04:19 PM

I'm running TMO. If the mk23 presents no advantage in terms of reliability, there is indeed no point in using it! I guess the 'newer' version of the same torpedo could have been developed with nothing but one less range/speed option for two reasons:

1 - cheaper;

2 - less complex, therefor, less prone to failure.

As is seems, only option n.1 applies. Blast!

tmdgm · 05-09-11, 06:26 PM

Ah so deep runners can be considered a "dud"? I've only had the duds that hit the ship but don't explode so far. I thought for sure 6 deep runners was a bug. Did not realize a deep runner is modeled into the game as a dud.

Sooo based on capn scurvy's data and ethebergs experience, it appears maybe i just had 6 deep runners and that's that. That's cool, actually sucks but cool that the game simulates how bad the torps were in real life, not only for duds but deep runners as well. Like i said, i didn't realize deep runners were modeled, i thought it was just a bug.

Thanks for the help.

Etheberg, that had to be completely frustrating.

05-08-11, 07:58 PM	#1
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Im not sure how you got those results the contact influence should be worse not better than contact in game as they where in real life in fact the subs where commanded some time in early 43 once the issues with magnetic where confirmed not use that mode at all later they simply did come with magnetic mode at all. Early war until 43' you should not waste the time of using the contact influence only use the contact mode and set the depth shallow also try to use the low speed setting(unless using mk.23s) that will give you the highest chances of not getting duds deep runners and premature explosions. No mater what though if you have duds on there is a chance that any type of torpedo will dud out but you can reduce your chances of getting one.Just think how a real sub crew must have felt early in the wat when in some cases not a single torpedo worked correctly.Personally in game I hate the true duds that hit but don't explode the most huge bummer.I have not used a set a torpedo to magnetic in SH4 for several years to be honest with TMO and duds on doing so will result in frustration and lot of yelling "here I am shoot me!!" to the IJN without doing any real damage to them first. Look at the realistic torpedo setting threads on the site and follow the guide lines myself I'd say I only get one maybe two duds on most patrols rarely I might get five or six. Last edited by Stealhead; 05-08-11 at 08:12 PM.

05-08-11, 08:44 PM	#2
etheberge Watch Officer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Montreal, QC Posts: 345 Downloads: 614 Uploads: 10	In my last patrol I encountered a lightly escorted northbound convoy east of Luzon on Christmas eve 1941. Spent a good 5 hours game time doing an end around and getting in perfect firing position ahead, no escorts in front of the convoy at all, the two escorts were hanging out at the back end of the convoy. This was all set to be a slaughter. I fired off my entire load of 16 torps at the leading ships in 2-3 attacks before the two escorts cornered me. Results: 4 deep-runners went right under the target's keel without exploding. 2 prematures 6 duds 3 misses 1 hit, ship didn't sink and kept going. Newport Torpedo Station probably heard me swearing at them all the way over in Rhode Island. __________________ 11 War Patrols / 56 ships sunk or damaged for 212,022 tons Zero casualties throughout the war Scuttled on 8 May, 1945 in Sonderburg Bay, after German surrender

05-08-11, 10:38 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The Mk.14 until fully fixed later in the war ran about 10 feet deeper than set on average(notice "about" they might run deeper than +10 or less you cant know for sure) which was one reason that the magnetic mode failed (running too deep to sense the ships field) the other problem was that the magnetic exploder itself failed often to detect magnetic fields properly in the first place and got thrown off by all sorts of things causing it to explode early because they ran only a few highly controlled unrealistic tests with them before the war.There are tons of articles on the web about the whole Mk.14 affair. Another issue was that the torpedoes contact detonator tended to get crushed before it was able to fully set it self off or was unable to set off at all. This was cured by using only the low speed setting and avoiding certain AOBs. So there where 3 different things wrong with the original mk.14 in its original form and they where not confirmed until 1943 after tests that Lockwood ordered. Because of deep running and the flaky magnetic dets this makes the failure rate of a magnetic mode mk.14 pretty high so just dont bother with them.Best bet set you torps to around 5 feet contact low speed that way they are most likely to go boom against a ships hull.

05-09-11, 09:56 AM	#4
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	What about the Mk 23? Is it significantly better in any way? Or is it just the Mk14 plain and simple, without the option to switch to lower speed/greater range?

05-09-11, 02:44 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	In game they are much the same besides the 23 having only the high speed setting.I think they have the same failure rate as well so again dont bother with keel shots and set the depth shallow and watch the AOB you cant avoid the high speed detonator getting crushed before setting the main charge.I am not sure though I never use Mk.23s to be honest I run with mk.14s and mk.18s once available. If you are running stock it will say in the mk.23 data that it has more torpex IIRC that is incorrect they have the amount as the mk.14 in RFB and TMO this typo has been corrected.Basically the Mk.23 was/is a 14 with no low speed mode. By the way the electric mk.18s they will not actually go 4,000 yds I forget the true max range for them but I avoid using them on anything over 3,700 yds away or sailing away from that range. Personally I prefer the Mk.14 because the low speed setting lowers your dud rate and allows the torp to go farther away allowing it to have a chance of hitting another ship if you miss the targeted ship(I have seen this a few times and it is hilarious) you wont get that as likely only a 4,500 yd range but you will with 9,000yds to play with also you are allowed better stand off the 14s give you more options and I like the 18s for daytime attacks because they leave no wake to spot.Generally the other torps are not worth the coin.Though I do sometimes carry a mk.27 to kill pursuing escorts.

05-09-11, 04:19 PM	#6
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	I'm running TMO. If the mk23 presents no advantage in terms of reliability, there is indeed no point in using it! I guess the 'newer' version of the same torpedo could have been developed with nothing but one less range/speed option for two reasons: 1 - cheaper; 2 - less complex, therefor, less prone to failure. As is seems, only option n.1 applies. Blast!

05-09-11, 06:26 PM	#7
tmdgm Engineer Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 219 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Ah so deep runners can be considered a "dud"? I've only had the duds that hit the ship but don't explode so far. I thought for sure 6 deep runners was a bug. Did not realize a deep runner is modeled into the game as a dud. Sooo based on capn scurvy's data and ethebergs experience, it appears maybe i just had 6 deep runners and that's that. That's cool, actually sucks but cool that the game simulates how bad the torps were in real life, not only for duds but deep runners as well. Like i said, i didn't realize deep runners were modeled, i thought it was just a bug. Thanks for the help. Etheberg, that had to be completely frustrating.