How Do You Sink Ships In 1943 onwards... - Page 2

Gerald · 05-08-11, 12:42 PM

Keep up the good work!

05-08-11, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

I believe all the radar in WWII were line of sight as are FM signals. Sitting atop the tallest masts, probably five or six Km or 10-12 Km.
Air craft a whole lot more.
Starting in 1943, when Adm King finally realized that the German subs meant business, air cover became the rule, with bases in Greenland, Iceland and finally, the Azores. In good weather, light escort carriers added further protection.
U-boats had nowhere to hide, and the war of the Atlantic was really over.
Almost all the U-boats after 1943 were sunk, and shipping loses for the Allies became minimal.
As for tactics after 1943, the best answer would be to transfer to the far East.

Why is transfering to the east the answer?

Jimbuna · 05-08-11, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith

Why is transfering to the east the answer?

They were less well prepared.

Fish In The Water · 05-08-11, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

They were less well prepared.

That plus the oriental cuisine can't be beat!

irish1958 · 05-09-11, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

That plus the oriental cuisine can't be beat!

And, of course, the Hong Cong houses of ill repute

sharkbit · 05-09-11, 10:55 AM

The further I get into the war, Argentinian cuisine sounds better and better.

Kmdt Kozhein · 05-10-11, 08:45 AM

My first career ended in 1943. Night time, surface cruising somewhere in CG, surprised by a plane.

I'm only playing my second career now. Still 1940. I dread 1943.

sharkbit · 05-10-11, 05:45 PM

I'm running a couple of careers in 1943 right now. Airplanes have been a nuisance but not horrible-yet.
It is attacking convoys that get me. I cringe everytime I get a convoy report or spot one now. I say a quick prayer and move in without too much confidence(I put on a confident face to my crew though

).
I've lost a couple boats attacking convoys in 1943 to hedgehog equipped escorts-<shudder>.

Back in 1940, I couldn't wait to find a convoy, and it took a while before I saw my first. Now in 1943, I'm happy finding singles.

Bakkels · 05-10-11, 06:31 PM

So far, all my careers have ended in '43.
And I didn't want to start all over again in '39, so this time I made kind of a realistic career for myself; I'm in command of U-130, with the correct captain's name, picture, emblems and everything, and I'm going on the same patrol routes as the real U-130. (It was part of operation Drumbeat, and that's now coming up in my game

)

However, the real one sunk in..... you guessed it: '43. So I hope the ending of my career will not be so realistic. Fingers crossed...

Fish In The Water · 05-11-11, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Back in 1940, I couldn't wait to find a convoy, and it took a while before I saw my first. Now in 1943, I'm happy finding singles.

A lot of truth in that. Funny how times change.

sublynx · 05-11-11, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakkels

So far, all my careers have ended in '43.
And I didn't want to start all over again in '39, so this time I made kind of a realistic career for myself; I'm in command of U-130, with the correct captain's name, picture, emblems and everything, and I'm going on the same patrol routes as the real U-130. (It was part of operation Drumbeat, and that's now coming up in my game

)

However, the real one sunk in..... you guessed it: '43. So I hope the ending of my career will not be so realistic. Fingers crossed...

A very nice idea, I think I might try that as well. Let's hope you change history in 1943, though!

maillemaker · 05-13-11, 12:52 PM

The bad news is that the escorts have radar.

The good news is that you have radar detectors, and you can detect them long before they can detect you.

What you want to do is shadow the convoy at a range just enough to detect their radar signals. This is probably between 10K and 16K meters. You will need to enable the 16K mod. Shadow them on the surface long enough to chart their course and speed. Draw a line from the center of the convoy out along its predicted course.

Go to flank speed and plot an "end-around" course, parallel to the target course and then cut over to intercept. After you are at flank speed, note the time to end of course. Should be like 2 hours.

Use the manometer on the side of your map - draw a line from the known speed of the convoy through 120 minutes. Then note on the distance line how far the convoy will have moved in 120 minutes.

Draw a circle centered on the current convoy position of radius equal to the distance computed above.

Where the circle and the convoy course line intersect is where you should end up at the end of your intercept. If necessary, adjust your course and re-compute the convoy end position until you get a good intercept. You will want to make your intercept happen about 10K m in front of the convoy - it does you no good to intercept directly at the convoy.

As you approach your intercept position, you should start to detect the convoy escort's radar again. Verify that they are coming down the predicted course and have not changed course.

If all is well, submerge and go silent. You should be ahead of the convoy and off to the side. Ideally you should be about 3000 meters or so off to the side of the convoy's course.

Then just sit and wait for the convoy to approach. When they get within visual you can pop up your scope for quick looks to refine their course. Don't keep the scope up long.

With luck, you should be able to sneak in beside the leading escort and in front of the flank escort. If you are really good you can get within the convoy undetected.

Fire your torpedoes and head for the deep.

First rule of late-war convoy attack: Never attack a convoy without 100% hull integrity. You will need to go as absolutely deep as your sub can go to have any hope of evading the escorts after the fireworks start.

Steve

FIREWALL · 05-13-11, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit

The further I get into the war, Argentinian cuisine sounds better and better.

I was just about to post that.

Fish In The Water · 05-14-11, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

If all is well, submerge and go silent. You should be ahead of the convoy and off to the side. Ideally you should be about 3000 meters or so off to the side of the convoy's course.

Just wondering why you like to start from 3000 meters in this instance? What do you consider to be the pros (in terms of tactical advantage)?

Obersteuermann · 05-14-11, 01:26 PM

I'm struggling through late 43-early 44 at the moment. Gave up on DiD because this is just such a challenge that I really don't want to start from scratch!

I'm finding real-world tactics to be the best method of survival. I rarely, if ever, get within visual range of a convoy whilst surfaced. As soon as my lookouts get a visual I'm either speeding away or submerging, depending on my position vis-a-vis the convoy.

Once I'm underwater my total focus is on remaining silent and on evading the leading escorts. The old adage is true; if you don't stay edge-on to the escorts, you WILL be detected. If you get within 400m of an escort, odds are they WILL detect you, unless you're behind them. Correct positioning is key and you mustn't be afraid to raise the scope and manoeuvre accordingly. I tend to come in at one of the corners of the convoy. Stay away from the lead sweeper - they are too unpredictable to evade. Come in between two of the steady escorts instead.

As soon as you're inside the escort screen, start preparing your attack. The one good thing about late war convoys is that you typically have a large number of hi-tonnage targets to shoot at, so the rewards are greater. However, you MUST position yourself in line with the fattest columns before you come too close to the convoy. Once you're within about 3km of the escort screen it just isn't worth risking hard/fast manoeuvres.

The moment you've fired all your forward tubes (and only one of your stern tubes if you're in a Type IX - stern defence is essential), dive. Come to Kleine Fahrt - you want at least 60m of water over your head before the first eels hit. Go to at least 160m. 200m+ is safest. When your torpedoes start exploding you have about a minute, at most, before you should go to silent speed. Dive through the convoy so as to confuse any pursuing escorts. A diagonal course is best.

When picking your course away from the convoy, pay attention to the escort screen. The last thing you want to do is go directly underneath an escort - this is a sure way to get yourself located and sunk. Have a look around before you dive and note where the escorts are, then plan to go between them.

If you are detected at any point, abandon all hope of attacking the convoy. Your immediate priority is saving boat and crew. Dive deep and dive fast. If you have Bold, it works best at depths above 100m or so, but be aware that active sonar is your greatest enemy. I keep a Zaunkoenig in tube V for emergencies, although late war escorts are canny enough to weave until they're within 300m. Really your only hope of escape is blind luck - I'm not very good at escaping from angry escorts!

These notes are by no means perfect, but they've worked three or four times for me now. On each occasion I scored 40k tons without detection.

05-08-11, 12:42 PM	#16
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Keep up the good work! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

05-09-11, 10:55 AM	#21
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	The further I get into the war, Argentinian cuisine sounds better and better. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

05-10-11, 08:45 AM	#22
Kmdt Kozhein Watch Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts: 21 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	My first career ended in 1943. Night time, surface cruising somewhere in CG, surprised by a plane. I'm only playing my second career now. Still 1940. I dread 1943. __________________ We've been detected, Captain!

05-10-11, 05:45 PM	#23
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	I'm running a couple of careers in 1943 right now. Airplanes have been a nuisance but not horrible-yet. It is attacking convoys that get me. I cringe everytime I get a convoy report or spot one now. I say a quick prayer and move in without too much confidence(I put on a confident face to my crew though ). I've lost a couple boats attacking convoys in 1943 to hedgehog equipped escorts-<shudder>. Back in 1940, I couldn't wait to find a convoy, and it took a while before I saw my first. Now in 1943, I'm happy finding singles. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

05-10-11, 06:31 PM	#24
Bakkels Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Groningen, The Netherlands Posts: 709 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 6	So far, all my careers have ended in '43. And I didn't want to start all over again in '39, so this time I made kind of a realistic career for myself; I'm in command of U-130, with the correct captain's name, picture, emblems and everything, and I'm going on the same patrol routes as the real U-130. (It was part of operation Drumbeat, and that's now coming up in my game ) However, the real one sunk in..... you guessed it: '43. So I hope the ending of my career will not be so realistic. Fingers crossed... __________________ My sh3 skins : http://www.gamefront.com/files/user/Bakkels Or go to the sh3 downloads section > skins

05-13-11, 12:52 PM	#27
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	The bad news is that the escorts have radar. The good news is that you have radar detectors, and you can detect them long before they can detect you. What you want to do is shadow the convoy at a range just enough to detect their radar signals. This is probably between 10K and 16K meters. You will need to enable the 16K mod. Shadow them on the surface long enough to chart their course and speed. Draw a line from the center of the convoy out along its predicted course. Go to flank speed and plot an "end-around" course, parallel to the target course and then cut over to intercept. After you are at flank speed, note the time to end of course. Should be like 2 hours. Use the manometer on the side of your map - draw a line from the known speed of the convoy through 120 minutes. Then note on the distance line how far the convoy will have moved in 120 minutes. Draw a circle centered on the current convoy position of radius equal to the distance computed above. Where the circle and the convoy course line intersect is where you should end up at the end of your intercept. If necessary, adjust your course and re-compute the convoy end position until you get a good intercept. You will want to make your intercept happen about 10K m in front of the convoy - it does you no good to intercept directly at the convoy. As you approach your intercept position, you should start to detect the convoy escort's radar again. Verify that they are coming down the predicted course and have not changed course. If all is well, submerge and go silent. You should be ahead of the convoy and off to the side. Ideally you should be about 3000 meters or so off to the side of the convoy's course. Then just sit and wait for the convoy to approach. When they get within visual you can pop up your scope for quick looks to refine their course. Don't keep the scope up long. With luck, you should be able to sneak in beside the leading escort and in front of the flank escort. If you are really good you can get within the convoy undetected. Fire your torpedoes and head for the deep. First rule of late-war convoy attack: Never attack a convoy without 100% hull integrity. You will need to go as absolutely deep as your sub can go to have any hope of evading the escorts after the fireworks start. Steve

05-14-11, 01:26 PM	#30
Obersteuermann Shore leave Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 70 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I'm struggling through late 43-early 44 at the moment. Gave up on DiD because this is just such a challenge that I really don't want to start from scratch! I'm finding real-world tactics to be the best method of survival. I rarely, if ever, get within visual range of a convoy whilst surfaced. As soon as my lookouts get a visual I'm either speeding away or submerging, depending on my position vis-a-vis the convoy. Once I'm underwater my total focus is on remaining silent and on evading the leading escorts. The old adage is true; if you don't stay edge-on to the escorts, you WILL be detected. If you get within 400m of an escort, odds are they WILL detect you, unless you're behind them. Correct positioning is key and you mustn't be afraid to raise the scope and manoeuvre accordingly. I tend to come in at one of the corners of the convoy. Stay away from the lead sweeper - they are too unpredictable to evade. Come in between two of the steady escorts instead. As soon as you're inside the escort screen, start preparing your attack. The one good thing about late war convoys is that you typically have a large number of hi-tonnage targets to shoot at, so the rewards are greater. However, you MUST position yourself in line with the fattest columns before you come too close to the convoy. Once you're within about 3km of the escort screen it just isn't worth risking hard/fast manoeuvres. The moment you've fired all your forward tubes (and only one of your stern tubes if you're in a Type IX - stern defence is essential), dive. Come to Kleine Fahrt - you want at least 60m of water over your head before the first eels hit. Go to at least 160m. 200m+ is safest. When your torpedoes start exploding you have about a minute, at most, before you should go to silent speed. Dive through the convoy so as to confuse any pursuing escorts. A diagonal course is best. When picking your course away from the convoy, pay attention to the escort screen. The last thing you want to do is go directly underneath an escort - this is a sure way to get yourself located and sunk. Have a look around before you dive and note where the escorts are, then plan to go between them. If you are detected at any point, abandon all hope of attacking the convoy. Your immediate priority is saving boat and crew. Dive deep and dive fast. If you have Bold, it works best at depths above 100m or so, but be aware that active sonar is your greatest enemy. I keep a Zaunkoenig in tube V for emergencies, although late war escorts are canny enough to weave until they're within 300m. Really your only hope of escape is blind luck - I'm not very good at escaping from angry escorts! These notes are by no means perfect, but they've worked three or four times for me now. On each occasion I scored 40k tons without detection.