Euro falls on rumours Greece is to quit the eurozone

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

You won't be. Currency does not bow to the whims of politicians or nations.

Yes it does, maybe not to politician or nations directly, but certainly to banks and other financial institutions. If you believe currency to be a entity on it's own, that can't be influenced by anyone, you believe in a fairytale. Currency is an abstract thing. What it's worth is only the worth we give to it.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

The EU is just one in a long line of failed experiments in messing about with free trade. The E.U. will fall, however noble its intention. Their attempts to socialize it and the obvious resultant failures have doomed them, and this is just the start.

I don't think you have any idea what the EU actually is about. You can be pro EU or against it, but the fact is the EU was specifically designed to encourage free trade.
And that is what it does, whether one likes it or not

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

You're probably right, but don't you think the Finnish or Dutch would pour money into it without getting anything back?

What we are getting is our economy ruined, debt to pass for three generations and an attempt to shove a federal state upon us without any democratic process.

Finland and Netherlands would have done just as well outside EU and Euro.

[Happy Times]

Seems im not the only one calling it a Ponzi scheme.

Europe is running a giant Ponzi scheme

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee728cb6-7...#axzz1LdP1ujJY

Originally Posted by Happy Times

The Greeks are also at Luxenbourg and the lights are on trough the night at the Prime Ministers Office in Helsinki.

This week has been the beginning of the end of the eurozone and maybe even EU.

Sounds good to me.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

Yes it does, maybe not to politician or nations directly, but certainly to banks and other financial institutions. If you believe currency to be a entity on it's own, that can't be influenced by anyone, you believe in a fairytale. Currency is an abstract thing. What it's worth is only the worth we give to it.

The Euro was pöolitically created. The dollar value gets inflenced by plltiicians - by printing tons and tons of it. If you ands James think currencies cannot politically ,manipulated or at last influenced, then youz are wrong. Another example how politicians impact on currencies, is wars. The more subtle manipulates of central banks also should not be forgotten.

James said it is only the market, I assume he meant "free market", whcih I claim does not exist anyway. Even a currency of a truly free market gets manipulated outside market mechanism by the eabove factors, or by speculations that hold no ground. It just has happened in Europe: the ECB refused to react to high prices for oil and precious metals, which were hyped in the past months by speculations becasue they hoped for high profits from overpricing when the ECB was expected to protect it. After the ECB denied that phrase that was expected, the porices went nose down and the dollar value went nose up, the Euro lost 2 cents within minutes after the prerss conference, and still is there. Which is better than the status before.

Speculation is the bone cancer of financial systems like ours.

I don't think you have any idea what the EU actually is about. You can be pro EU or against it, but the fact is the EU was specifically designed to encourage free trade.
And that is what it does, whether one likes it or not

I know what the EU was about. I myself have reminded of that often enough. Note, you think it still is like that, I however realise that after the fall of the wall the EU's ambitions have grown and become much more than just a union of cooperating economies. And that is where the trouble is, these new orientations of it. The fight between federalists who wanted a somewhat socialistically oriented "Federal States of Europe", and those who prefer the old defintion of deGaulle as a Europe of economically cooperating independent fatherlands that live peacefully together, started much earlier than just 1989, however.

The ideological basis and orientation of this Federal states project, as well as the obvious lack of citizen'S legitimation getting requested for it, is what defines the EU as an ursupator of powers and an ideological tyranny, and more and more often a tyranny by laws and rules that have nothing, really nothing to do with economics indeed. The EU naturally claims the right to dicatte the elected soveriegn parliaments of nations what they have to do and what not. More than 80% of the laws passed by the German parliament, are laws demanded by the EU, which just get waved through. The parliament villates the constitution of our country that rules that it shall do not right this: just waving things through, but to check and analyse them - and rejecting them wshen they are not for the good of Germany or are anti-constitutional. But it seems the EU is given immunity from this check.

The obvious big deficits in transparency, the lack of democratically given legitimation and the enormous private lobbyism interfering with and manipulating decision making in Brussel, has often been described and must not be explained once again, I think.

To hell with the EU. How precious it is you can see that indeed only its economic actions are being taken into account by others outside of it. But its ideological claims and ideas - the simple truth is all others are laughing about it, and nobody takes it serious, and some make best material profit by abusing it.

Let there be economic coordination and cooperation, that is the best factor to maxcimise the chances for peace and stability. Beyond that, one should kick the EU's butt and give it a bloody nose whenever it sticks its nose into things that must not be its interest at all and for which to do it has zero legitimation by the people of Europe.

But their are careers in the circus, and payments and psoitons to be defended, and earnings, and operetta titles and operetta glamour events - politicians will defend the EU with fangs and claws, because they are personally benefitting from it in so many ways, it gives them money and prestige and privileges.

That is not the EU I tolerate. Nor is that the EU that was wanted when it was founded.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Seems im not the only one calling it a Ponzi scheme.

Europe is running a giant Ponzi scheme

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee728cb6-7...#axzz1LdP1ujJY

Good and true one! And written by somebody who should know it: the governor of the Argentine's central bank. He is 100% on target.

He calls it ponzi scheme, but I have a better title for it: Hütchenspiel (thimblerig).

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13317770

Note: Update record,7 May 2011 Last updated at 09:17 GMT

[joea]

Interesting. Maybe a good thing after all, true will be a pain to go back to changing different currencies but honestly I rarely travel to more than one EU country at a time.

[Armistead]

The EU will evolve and change as will the nations that are apart of it..

I can imagine John writing Revelations, stating the world will one day have no currency, that 10 nations will combine out of the old Roman empire to be controlled by a world leader. I can only think he mumbled to himself.

"Damn politicians."


Course if you believe that stuff. I find it amazing most cultures have a end times story. My guess is once a few smart men had a taste of politicians they knew the end would eventually come one day.


Me, I don't know what to believe, except to stockpile can goods and ammo.

[Jimbuna]

So if they drop the currency will they pay back all of said currency they recently received?

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So if they drop the currency will they pay back all of said currency they recently received?

Not likely, the money must be generated somewhere

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Vendor

Not likely, the money must be generated somewhere

What do you mean?

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What do you mean?

Because the country has of course a difficult situation as it is with earlier laws on pension rights, etc., and now they've borrowed some and has a pressure from the IMF, to meet the inflation target, and to be able to withdraw money via taxes. .. so eventually you may be entitled to it may be a change, but I doubt it, you know how it is made with Portugal, and other countries in similar situations

[Jimbuna]

Bugga them....we are broke here in the UK....they should try working until they reach the age of 66

Where's STEED when you want him?

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Bugga them....we are broke here in the UK....they should try working until they reach the age of 66

Where's STEED when you want him?

Yes,before it was up to 55 or earlier, ya now.