Convoys

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

Last night I had a Flower Class pass by me while I was waiting for the convoy to come into position. So, I decided to take him out. I sent three torpedoes, and as soon as the first hit him he steered towards me, but then he sunk. The two other torpedoes than went on to take out a cargo ship way over on the other side of the convoy. Heh. Then I got away.

I'm sailing a Type VII/B.

How deep would be considered desirable?

Early war, 200 M should be sufficient, late war, as deep as you dare to take her. Just remember the more damage you take, the less deep you can go without severely crushing.

As to going into the convoy, I've used it a few times, but I prefer outside shots from about 4km or 5km. Why?? Like I stated before, if I set my torpedos to slow, I can be a good few km ahead of the convoy before they even impact, which is good, because thats not where theyre looking.

And like the other person posted, and I said, greed will kill you. A single ship is a quick meal to fill your hunger right away, a convoy is a 3 course meal for breakfast lunch and dinner that you can leave in the fridge for a day or so. If when your on your approach to set up attack, if anything smells fishy, just bug out and reaquire later.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

If the escorts get real aggressive, I'll even take it a step further and try 'shadowing' the larger merchants in the center of the convoy. That way you can use the noise from their screws and the disturbance of their wake for extra cover. Plus it's pretty hard to get depth charged if you're directly under a large tanker.

[thegreattriscuit]

So, not meaning to hijack here, but I'm still learning the art of the convoy attack myself... and have just completed one pass, and would like some feedback...

so, this is a slow mover (6kts) with more than a dozen ships, and im' in a IXD, so plenty easy to sprint around it and put myself right in front... I figured I'd sit right in their path, submerged, with engines off (I'll have to look more into this 'setting the turns' business...), silent running, and even dropped my scope, and wait for them to get right on top of me so I could quickly pop up, dump all my tubes, and then GTFO...

Except when the first escort was passing me, everything went bad... my little meter went red, and suddenly people are screaming about getting pinged... thankfully I only had it on 8x and was able to crash and avoid the Depth charges, and in so doing wind up right where I wanted to be anyway and take a moment to sink 3 ships (inc. one of the escorts).

I was a shade deeper the parascope depth (12 or 15 m, I believe) with my scopes at around 6 or 7m (to avoid the ~5m draft of the escorts) in the middle of the night and perfect glassy waters. How did I get detected? Is it just assumed that if they're that close, one of my sailors is going to fart too loud and they'll pick it up in their hydrophones or something? Or is it "just one of those things"? Or was it a fluke and I should be able to get away with it just fine in the future? (by the way, I'm really not sure how close he was... <100m probably... i was at the nav map, at 8x, and was totally convinced I had nothing to worry about, so I wasn't really even watching his 'hydrophone line'...

And, related to the same scenario, I'm in the process of sprinting around them, and I can detect the radar from the escorts... they don't appear to have seen me yet, since they haven't sprinted up to kill me... and I'm considering running in close to pull one of them off and see if I can take him out so I don't have to worry later... is this worthwile at all? will all his friends come to the party, or just him, you think?

[sublynx]

Originally Posted by thegreattriscuit

thankfully I only had it on 8x ... How did I get detected?

Time compression is a big no no when the enemy is near. TC somehow makes you more easy to be spotted.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

If the escorts get real aggressive, I'll even take it a step further and try 'shadowing' the larger merchants in the center of the convoy. That way you can use the noise from their screws and the disturbance of their wake for extra cover. Plus it's pretty hard to get depth charged if you're directly under a large tanker.

Nice in theory, but the AI escorts do not hear other AI ships.

"Lurking" under a large merchant is also a good idea, in theory, but how are you planning on keeping station under a zig-zagging merchant? And so what if you managed to? The escorts would still know where you are, so you would end up sailing across the Atlantic like that, without ever escaping.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by thegreattriscuit

So, not meaning to hijack here, but I'm still learning the art of the convoy attack myself... and have just completed one pass, and would like some feedback...

No offense, but I would take a long, prayerful look at the GWX manual's section on convoy attacks (even if you are not using GWX), and then I would dial my clock back to 1939-1940 and practice, practice, practice.

BTW, running TC does not make you easier to detect, but it makes reacting to detection much harder. Do the math... do you want 2 minutes to react to an escort turning to you, or do you want 15 seconds? If you want 15 seconds, by all means stay with 8X.

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by thegreattriscuit

I was a shade deeper the parascope depth (12 or 15 m, I believe) with my scopes at around 6 or 7m (to avoid the ~5m draft of the escorts) in the middle of the night and perfect glassy waters. How did I get detected? Is it just assumed that if they're that close, one of my sailors is going to fart too loud and they'll pick it up in their hydrophones or something?

I've had that happen in vanilla. Interestingly enough, not in GWX, yet.

Remember that the hemispherical detection area to the front of the destroyer, when you select the escort on your map screen, extends downward as well. If you are that close to the escort, do not be surprised if you are detected. Depth is Life.

IRL, an escort's sonarman could detect their own screw noise reflected off underwater structures at very close range. If that underwater structure (your boat) is in open water, the sonarman might just wonder what the heck is under their ship all of a sudden.

I'm not saying this is modelled in SH3, I don't know, it is just how I rationalize such situations in game.

[thegreattriscuit]

heck, osmium, why not? I'll buy "rotor echo" over "crew farts", any day.

guess that means I should get out the way of that Black Swan Class that pointed right at me 900m from my bow...

And I'm sure you're right about the manual... I *HAVE* read through it, but it was many moons ago... I'll have to look through it again someday soon.

And I have my own frustrations with the early war, but those are deserving of their own thread, which I'll create when I get home from work, probably... in the mean time, thanks for the input guys.

[Pisces]

There could very well be a minimum distance while underwater that is going to make you detected no matter what precautions you make. But it might also have been your periscope sticking out of the surface for just a small moment. Difficult to say exactly what happend. All you can do is react appropriately and get away.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

"Lurking" under a large merchant is also a good idea, in theory, but how are you planning on keeping station under a zig-zagging merchant?

It's only intended to be a temporary tactic. If the escorts are already 'on top of you' it provides a respite while you plan your next move. Try tracking their search pattern and then break when they're at the furthest point in the arc.

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Even worse is when you are looking thru your scope while you're in the midst of the convoy submerged and a ship fills the field of view and you realize that you ARE NOT zoomed in with your scope.
Then there is no thinking you may get run over-you will get run over.

You just hit on my biggest SH3 fear.