[TEC] Adding/Importing new units / SH5 Damage/collision models - Page 19

TheDarkWraith · 05-03-11, 05:20 PM

NKMCS_Akita looks excellent now

NMFMSSS_Kasagisan looking good now also:

and the PT boat is looking killer!

Rongel · 05-03-11, 05:47 PM

Quote:

exactly...that shouldn't be showing up in game. The occlusion map is just for that occlusion testing for lighting...no rendering. That is the problem. You shouldn't see any of that rust unless it's also on the texture (_Txx)

Are you sure about this? Because the rust is visible in SH 4. I've tried to mimic Sh 4 .dat files and my ship is basically the same, no images embedded. I can modify my occlusion map and the rust can be painted off. I managed to get rid of the lighting change too. We should compare our ships to see that which is the best and easiest way to go. I can send you my ship tomorrow and it would be great to have a look what you have done

Okay, good night all!

EDIT: Thanks for the files, tdw!

TheDarkWraith · 05-03-11, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongel

Are you sure about this? Because the rust is visible in SH 4. I've tried to mimic Sh 4 .dat files and my ship is basically the same, no images embedded. I can modify my occlusion map and the rust can be painted off. I managed to get rid of the lighting change too. We should compare our ships to see that which is the best and easiest way to go. I can send you my ship tomorrow and it would be great to have a look what you have done

Okay, good night all!

EDIT: Thanks for the files, tdw!

No I'm not sure at all. I played SH4 for maybe a whole 10mins then it became a dust collector. From the little I know about 3D modelling/imaging (from books) occlusion maps should be just for light occlusion - they should do nothing for rendered images (it's for a game engine's lighting calculations for objects). All the image rendering should come from the texture(s) defined for the 3D model.

The one thing you have to look for to see whether what you're doing is looking right or not is view the object at an angle to the light source. You shouldn't see any 'artifacts' on the rendered image. Let the sun be low on the horizon and don't look at the object broadside but rather almost parallel (looking front or back) with the camera very close to the object and see if you see any 'artifacts' or not.

THE_MASK · 05-03-11, 06:32 PM

I can alter them in photo shop to show diffrent colors on the object . For example i can add rust to Uboat7A_O01 dds to give a rust look to parts of the conning tower .. I admit this isnt the right way to do it .

Zedi · 05-04-11, 12:49 AM

A lot of data here, but a bit confusing. So where is the right _T and _N is stored now? Embedded in DAT, externally stored in Sea or in Tex ? Because I see the same texture in all of these locations and I wanna clean up a bit. Also, what type of tex we use now, tga or dds?

There is a small problem with Elco. She is listed as.. escort ship in the roster. And that will make the game to use her as generic escort for convoys. Now having this guys to cross the Atlantic as escort.. is a bit too much to ask. And to change every single traffic/convoy in all the campaign files just to customize the escorts.. is too much for me. So what can we do with this guys to assign him only to coast patrol? Create a new type entry in the roster?

Later edit: Is impossible to make screenshost in campaign with the ships. Played almost 3 hours and used max TC, but all ive got was light fog, heavy fog, ridiculous fog and so on. If someone can remove the fog from the game, he will be my hero. Anyway, in TDW version the skined ships finally lost their rust and transparency on the hull, but they are almost white.. like some hospital ships. I presume this si also related to the occlusion map or something. I will add skin to the new ship and make some more test later.

Rongel · 05-04-11, 02:57 AM

Hi again! I tested TDW's ship, and it I found too that the occlusion map had wanished. It took away the rust, but also lighting effects and made the ship look somewhat crude in my opinion. I have those effects but I have other small problems that need fixing.

I think the rust should be visible if it's visible in the occlusion map. I made a test with SH 4 with Zedi's white ship. Still using stock occlusion map with rust:

As you can see, the rust is visible. Nice looking ship in sh 4 too!

Zedi · 05-04-11, 03:11 AM

I think the rust part is stored in the alpha channel of the occ map. If I could manage to add the new texture as an alpha channel to this map, problem could be solved. But that alpha channel is made in a way that is beyond my understanding. Somehow its stored only a transparency layer of the original texture map and I have absolutely no clue how is this done.

Im a noob in working with game texture files and found no tutorial that explain how to set up a similar alpha channel that stores only transparency, actually I saw no game doing this. Usually the alpha channel is used to show/hide parts of the texture or elements in the graphic file, not only the transparency level. I dont even understand why is needed to store the transparency of a texture. So im a complete noob, or those who did this are because was the only way to hide a bug.

Rongel · 05-04-11, 03:32 AM

Quote:

I think the rust part is stored in the alpha channel of the occ map. If I could manage to add the new texture as an alpha channel to this map, problem could be solved. But that alpha channel is made in a way that is beyond my understanding. Somehow its stored only a transparency layer of the original texture map and I have absolutely no clue how is this done.

I believe that the rust is just showing in the occlusion texture, not alpha channel. You can paint it off, and we could probably use also SH 5 occlusion map (wonder what that would look like)? Yes, the alpha channel looks weird, but I think it's just adding effects to some areas, like details, pieces of metal that shine in the sun... The rust is showing simply because we use occlusion map with rust. And the rust won't show if we don't use occlusion map at all. If I would use occlusion map completely without rust (I haven't done this yet) there wouldn't be rust. I think rust is not the issue!

Of course I might be completely wrong too!

I could Zedi send my ship to you and see what you think of it, but I try to fix the small problem first.

Zedi · 05-04-11, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongel

...
I could Zedi send my ship to you and see what you think of it, but I try to fix the small problem first.

Please do. As I said, TDW version is oke regarding the texture transparency, but now is all white like a hospital ship. I can make the textures more darker, but Im not sure this is the right direction to go.

Rongel · 05-04-11, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Please do. As I said, TDW version is oke regarding the texture transparency, but now is all white like a hospital ship. I can make the textures more darker, but Im not sure this is the right direction to go.

Little delay, I'm pretty sure I had it working, but then changed something and can't seem to get it back....

Zedi · 05-04-11, 06:21 AM

Here is Akita in campaign, but with the same issues.. the texture is white. But the ship itself looks very impressive!

Rongel · 05-04-11, 06:30 AM

Okay I sent a link to my ship to Zedi and TDW. There is two issues with it that I know... I thought I solved it but something happened or I was wrong.

My ship is almost like the one in Sh 4 folder. All the images and materials should be using same system than in SH 4. It uses .dds files and no embedded pictures. Basically the only difference is the DMG_col-addition!
All the maps and textures show basically correctly and it looks pretty much the same like the one in SH 4 (NOTE: this uses Sh 4 stock occlusion map).

Otherwise the import works (well, no reflections) but for some reason the sun light was showing on the wrong side! It's a nice effect that I couldn't see in TDW's version, and I struggle to keep it.

Well I managed to correct the sunlight direction by editing the UnifiedRenderControler and changed MediumLODDistance to -4. Now the light works as it should and it doesn't change back even though the camera is near the ship.

This would be almost perfect but something bad happens when I changed the value: The holes don't show anymore below the water (they were visible before the LODdistance edit). The other thing is that I managed to add visible SH 4 guns to the ship that were rendered. Now they are black.

.

So what is causing the sunlight direction bug? I bet it's the UnifiedRenderContoler, Sh 5 ships don't have that. I think we should use this Dat-file structure, it's the same in SH 4, so the importing would be almost like drag and drop!

Zedi · 05-04-11, 06:46 AM

Ow.. btw.. I have a similar bug, the green military blanket used on the deck of these 2 ships are now just a black hole. Thats in TDW version.

I think is more comfortable to send you booth my textures then you guys just play with it and try different approaches until somehow these issue will gets sorted out. I have my hands full with the campaign files anyway...

Rongel · 05-04-11, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Ow.. btw.. I have a similar bug, the green military blanket used on the deck of these 2 ships are now just a black hole. Thats in TDW version.

Yes I noticed that too before! But when I changed back to SH 4 system it went away and turned to green like it should be. But please try my ship, you have "clean" eyes and maybe notice something that I didn't.

TheDarkWraith · 05-04-11, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedi

Please do. As I said, TDW version is oke regarding the texture transparency, but now is all white like a hospital ship. I can make the textures more darker, but Im not sure this is the right direction to go.

how come in post #272 I got color on the ship and yours is all white? The texture needs to be in .dds format with no alpha channel (the _Txx) and stored in \data\Textures\TNormal\tex. Leave the embedded texture as is. The normal and occlusion maps are .dds files and stored in \data\Sea\class name. Leave the embedded normal and occlusion maps as is.

05-03-11, 05:20 PM	#271
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	NKMCS_Akita looks excellent now NMFMSSS_Kasagisan looking good now also: and the PT boat is looking killer! Last edited by TheDarkWraith; 05-03-11 at 05:35 PM.

05-04-11, 12:49 AM	#275
Zedi Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,845 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 2	A lot of data here, but a bit confusing. So where is the right _T and _N is stored now? Embedded in DAT, externally stored in Sea or in Tex ? Because I see the same texture in all of these locations and I wanna clean up a bit. Also, what type of tex we use now, tga or dds? There is a small problem with Elco. She is listed as.. escort ship in the roster. And that will make the game to use her as generic escort for convoys. Now having this guys to cross the Atlantic as escort.. is a bit too much to ask. And to change every single traffic/convoy in all the campaign files just to customize the escorts.. is too much for me. So what can we do with this guys to assign him only to coast patrol? Create a new type entry in the roster? Later edit: Is impossible to make screenshost in campaign with the ships. Played almost 3 hours and used max TC, but all ive got was light fog, heavy fog, ridiculous fog and so on. If someone can remove the fog from the game, he will be my hero. Anyway, in TDW version the skined ships finally lost their rust and transparency on the hull, but they are almost white.. like some hospital ships. I presume this si also related to the occlusion map or something. I will add skin to the new ship and make some more test later. Last edited by Zedi; 05-04-11 at 02:34 AM.

05-03-11, 06:32 PM	#274
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	I can alter them in photo shop to show diffrent colors on the object . For example i can add rust to Uboat7A_O01 dds to give a rust look to parts of the conning tower .. I admit this isnt the right way to do it .

05-04-11, 02:57 AM	#276
Rongel Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Finland Posts: 859 Downloads: 174 Uploads: 0	Hi again! I tested TDW's ship, and it I found too that the occlusion map had wanished. It took away the rust, but also lighting effects and made the ship look somewhat crude in my opinion. I have those effects but I have other small problems that need fixing. I think the rust should be visible if it's visible in the occlusion map. I made a test with SH 4 with Zedi's white ship. Still using stock occlusion map with rust: As you can see, the rust is visible. Nice looking ship in sh 4 too!

05-04-11, 03:11 AM	#277
Zedi Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,845 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 2	I think the rust part is stored in the alpha channel of the occ map. If I could manage to add the new texture as an alpha channel to this map, problem could be solved. But that alpha channel is made in a way that is beyond my understanding. Somehow its stored only a transparency layer of the original texture map and I have absolutely no clue how is this done. Im a noob in working with game texture files and found no tutorial that explain how to set up a similar alpha channel that stores only transparency, actually I saw no game doing this. Usually the alpha channel is used to show/hide parts of the texture or elements in the graphic file, not only the transparency level. I dont even understand why is needed to store the transparency of a texture. So im a complete noob, or those who did this are because was the only way to hide a bug.

05-04-11, 06:21 AM	#281
Zedi Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,845 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 2	Here is Akita in campaign, but with the same issues.. the texture is white. But the ship itself looks very impressive!

05-04-11, 06:30 AM	#282
Rongel Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Finland Posts: 859 Downloads: 174 Uploads: 0	Okay I sent a link to my ship to Zedi and TDW. There is two issues with it that I know... I thought I solved it but something happened or I was wrong. My ship is almost like the one in Sh 4 folder. All the images and materials should be using same system than in SH 4. It uses .dds files and no embedded pictures. Basically the only difference is the DMG_col-addition! All the maps and textures show basically correctly and it looks pretty much the same like the one in SH 4 (NOTE: this uses Sh 4 stock occlusion map). Otherwise the import works (well, no reflections) but for some reason the sun light was showing on the wrong side! It's a nice effect that I couldn't see in TDW's version, and I struggle to keep it. Well I managed to correct the sunlight direction by editing the UnifiedRenderControler and changed MediumLODDistance to -4. Now the light works as it should and it doesn't change back even though the camera is near the ship. This would be almost perfect but something bad happens when I changed the value: The holes don't show anymore below the water (they were visible before the LODdistance edit). The other thing is that I managed to add visible SH 4 guns to the ship that were rendered. Now they are black. . So what is causing the sunlight direction bug? I bet it's the UnifiedRenderContoler, Sh 5 ships don't have that. I think we should use this Dat-file structure, it's the same in SH 4, so the importing would be almost like drag and drop!

05-04-11, 06:46 AM	#283
Zedi Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,845 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 2	Ow.. btw.. I have a similar bug, the green military blanket used on the deck of these 2 ships are now just a black hole. Thats in TDW version. I think is more comfortable to send you booth my textures then you guys just play with it and try different approaches until somehow these issue will gets sorted out. I have my hands full with the campaign files anyway...