Bin Laden is dead, official - Page 21

TLAM Strike · 05-03-11, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I assume it is a safe bet that this was a kill mission, no capture mission. Just imagine the hassle at home and around the world, the media fire, the political correctness and human rights bombardement if he would have been taken alive. The discussions on how to deal with him legally. Endless rounds and rounds of debate and expertises. Why giving him this last final triumph and make him the on and on star of the media for months to come?

No, it is better the way it was done: go in, kill him, get rid of the body at sea, job done, game over, file closed, be back in time for early breakfast, period.

If he is really dea, the b etter it is. Dog doesn't balk and bite again - nice for all and everybody. Now hunt and slay the other dogs of the pack. That would be time better spent than endlessly discussing how to deal with Bin Laden at court.

How to deal with him legally? Simple: charge him in NY federal court with 3,000 counts of Felony murder plus 17,400 counts of attempted murder or instigation there of. Following that trial extradite him to Virgina for 200 counts of Felony murder, then to PA for 40 counts.

Following the Trial ship him to ADX Florence where all the other convicted Islamic terrorists are stored.

Everyone who lost someone on 9/11 deserves to see OBL face justice by the system he sought to destroy.

A dead OBL just gives the Arab Street more conspiracy theories.

August · 05-03-11, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

A dead OBL just gives the Arab Street more conspiracy theories.

And show trials somehow wouldn't? A violent death at the hands of an American. That's enough.

Blood_splat · 05-03-11, 09:02 PM

Bleeding heart liberals would be complaining about how he is being treated in prison.

Bin Laden, the hide and seek champion of 2001-2011.

krashkart · 05-03-11, 09:05 PM

The most unlikely last words heard by bin Laden before he died:

"They saved me fifty percent on my car insurance..."
"I just heard that the Goths were eliminated from the Amazing Race."
"Har! Nobody saw that one coming?"

"Hey John! I *made out with your Mom last night!"
"Really. Was she any good?"
"Good God, Matthews. I told you the bean dip was a bad idea."
"Can't have Fritos without bean dip, amigo."

*cleaned up for family-friendliness

Factor · 05-03-11, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

How to deal with him legally? Simple: charge him in NY federal court with 3,000 counts of Felony murder plus 17,400 counts of attempted murder or instigation there of. Following that trial extradite him to Virgina for 200 counts of Felony murder, then to PA for 40 counts.

Following the Trial ship him to ADX Florence where all the other convicted Islamic terrorists are stored.

Everyone who lost someone on 9/11 deserves to see OBL face justice by the system he sought to destroy.

A dead OBL just gives the Arab Street more conspiracy theories.

A 5.56 NATO round is alot cheaper...

Ducimus · 05-03-11, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

A 5.56 NATO round is alot cheaper...

Factor · 05-03-11, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

And show trials somehow wouldn't? A violent death at the hands of an American. That's enough.

Not just any American, but an American NAVY SEAL!

Takeda Shingen · 05-03-11, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

And show trials somehow wouldn't? A violent death at the hands of an American. That's enough.

^^This. I am, personally, very pleased that this monster's last view of earth was an American Navy Seal pointing a gun at his head.

Platapus · 05-03-11, 09:25 PM

How about this for a hypothesis?

If you captured UBL, would you make a public statement about it? Probably not.

A live UBL would be a temporary victory, but a long term problem. The problem with a captured UBL is what are you going to do with him? Have him rot at Gitmo? Bring him to trial? If we are scared of trying the small fry at Gitmo, can you imagine the risk of trying UBL in court?)

No. Publicly capturing UBL is more trouble then it is worth. While there would not be an attempt to rescue UBL, the possibility of AQ holding hostages demanding his release would be very high. Not a good position. So what is the alternative?

What if we captured UBL and not make it public?

Our special forces have many non-lethal tools that allow them to capture someone alive if they want.

What if we captured UBL alive and just announce that he is dead? A burial at sea ensures that the body is never found. To the world he is dead. No one looks for a dead person. No one holds hostages for the release of a man buried at sea.

Once the "body" is wrapped, it is easy to keep the secret from the rest of the crew. Something was buried at sea. The only people in the know would be a small number.

We can then transport UBL to a secure location for what is euphemistically called destructive interrogation. Everyone thinks he is dead, no rescue attempts, no hostage situations, no blackmail operations to force us to release him. We have all the time in the world. After the interrogation, his body is disposed of secretly. A very clean operation.

I have no evidence to believe this is what happened. But it is an interesting hypothesis to consider.

TLAM Strike · 05-03-11, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

A 5.56 NATO round is alot cheaper...

So is a 50 kt hydrogen bomb, yet we didn't use that either.

tater · 05-03-11, 09:30 PM

A good idea, frankly.

The plausible death means that you have more time to roll up more cells. With the helo crash, there was no way the neighbors wouldn't know something big went down, and there was likely someone else who knew where he was.

Factor · 05-03-11, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

So is a 50 kt hydrogen bomb, yet we didn't use that either.

It was considered.....

Factor · 05-03-11, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

A good idea, frankly.

The plausible death means that you have more time to roll up more cells. With the helo crash, there was no way the neighbors wouldn't know something big went down, and there was likely someone else who knew where he was.

The Pakistanis had to know where he was....

You do not have a fortified compound a mile away from a military academy. With no idea, or interest it seems, to know what is going on there.

The facts surrounding this, will be very interesting in the coming days/months.

TLAM Strike · 05-03-11, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

It was considered.....

I was making a serious point. We could win the war tomorrow if we wanted and turn the whole Islamic world in to burned sand. But we don't because that is not the American way.

What happened to doing things not because they are easy but because they are hard.

Yes hauling OBL to NY City and putting him on trial would be controversial, and expensive, and cause countless threats against America. But dammit that is the American Way! If you commit a crime on American soil you will be tried by Americans in an American court. That is so important a concept that we put it in the Constitution (see Amendment 5).

I hate terrorists, I hate their methods. Anyone who would commit a crime against innocents for a political end is the lowest form of scum. But sending black clad troops to kill an unarmed and non-uniformed person in their sleep is no different. We have sets of law to deal with criminals, and to determine who deals with them. I don't believe those were followed here.

Factor · 05-03-11, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

...to kill an unarmed and non-uniformed person in their sleep...

Guess he should of armed himself then.

05-03-11, 09:05 PM	#304
krashkart Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,292 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	The most unlikely last words heard by bin Laden before he died: "They saved me fifty percent on my car insurance..." "I just heard that the Goths were eliminated from the Amazing Race." "Har! Nobody saw that one coming?" "Hey John! I made out with your Mom last night!" "Really. Was she any good?" "Good God, Matthews. I told you the bean dip was a bad idea." "Can't have Fritos without bean dip, amigo." cleaned up for family-friendliness __________________ sent from my fingertips using a cheap keyboard

05-03-11, 09:25 PM	#309
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,384 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	How about this for a hypothesis? If you captured UBL, would you make a public statement about it? Probably not. A live UBL would be a temporary victory, but a long term problem. The problem with a captured UBL is what are you going to do with him? Have him rot at Gitmo? Bring him to trial? If we are scared of trying the small fry at Gitmo, can you imagine the risk of trying UBL in court?) No. Publicly capturing UBL is more trouble then it is worth. While there would not be an attempt to rescue UBL, the possibility of AQ holding hostages demanding his release would be very high. Not a good position. So what is the alternative? What if we captured UBL and not make it public? Our special forces have many non-lethal tools that allow them to capture someone alive if they want. What if we captured UBL alive and just announce that he is dead? A burial at sea ensures that the body is never found. To the world he is dead. No one looks for a dead person. No one holds hostages for the release of a man buried at sea. Once the "body" is wrapped, it is easy to keep the secret from the rest of the crew. Something was buried at sea. The only people in the know would be a small number. We can then transport UBL to a secure location for what is euphemistically called destructive interrogation. Everyone thinks he is dead, no rescue attempts, no hostage situations, no blackmail operations to force us to release him. We have all the time in the world. After the interrogation, his body is disposed of secretly. A very clean operation. I have no evidence to believe this is what happened. But it is an interesting hypothesis to consider. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-03-11, 09:30 PM	#311
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	A good idea, frankly. The plausible death means that you have more time to roll up more cells. With the helo crash, there was no way the neighbors wouldn't know something big went down, and there was likely someone else who knew where he was. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

05-03-11, 09:02 PM	#303
Blood_splat Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beneath the waves Posts: 568 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Bleeding heart liberals would be complaining about how he is being treated in prison. Bin Laden, the hide and seek champion of 2001-2011.