John Paul II beatified in Vatican ceremony

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Me, visited a couple of years ago and sworn to return

Well I admit that the city has advantages, quite right and the people are friendly and that you should avoid red-haired girls ... they tend to have one of those damn mood, says one thing and do something else instead,

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

I agree with every single word written here. Well said.

Thanks for the kind words.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.

Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.

IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.

I don't agree with that, A saint is supposed to be somebody who does great things, It's hard to believe he didn't know about these offenses. If he would have done the opposite and stopped these acts, then yes, he deserves Sainthood...but...nothing was done, the church went so far as to move offenders out of jurisdiction to protect them.

I'm sorry..I just can't see why someone who had to power to stop this, but did nothing deserves to be a saint.

[Fish In The Water]

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.

Not really sure where the disagreement is here...

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.

Not really sure where the disagreement is here...

because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.

Fair enough but where did I say he should be a saint?

[Castout]

Well for one it's a sainthood title given by the Pope, head of Catholic church.

One it is only a worldly title, world of the dead, hell and heaven don't care about it.
Two it is given by Pope Benedict and not God
Three John Paul II doesn't get anything out of this, really.
Four, it's not about John Paul II since he doesn't benefit from this.
Five, I'm a Catholic ...umm maybe I should change my religion but any religion doesn't save anyone. That's the power of God.
Six, a certain Caucasian Catholic monk once relayed a death threat to me. He said something about being torn apart and being returned to the cosmos if I remain imbalance. Holy crickey Cosmos is my rice cooker. Never knew it could tore me apart.

You know I've since realized Catholicism to love injustice and take side with the powerful. Any petty powerful murderer and dictator would only need to be a Catholic to buy themselves the rights to persecute the weak and innocent while being dear friend of the Catholic church.

For the most recent example there must be reason why the Pope suggested diplomacy to Libya crisis, knowing fully that any peaceful settlement while Gaddafi remains in power would mean vengeance and death to many Pro democracy supporters and fighters and innocent lives.

I spent 15 minutes with my rice cooker but it never answered me, that monk must have been deluded. I recall God at least to have answered me immediately 4 times in the span of my 31 year of living. Cosmos, he got to be kidding. I've seen God but I have never seen a powerful rice cooker. The only people who are imbalance are the people who were after my life. The cowards who hide behind emblazoned state money.

But I guess Vatican is an expert when it comes to dirty money and money laundering. I mean that is what they are doing in their own Bank. Not once but twice and God knows how many times again it will be exposed. If you make peace with the devil and evil you're making yourself the enemy of the holy God to put simply. But of course if you do not know God it won't matter much I suppose.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Thanks for the kind words.

But you are good, no doubt about it

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Vendor

But you are good, no doubt about it

Very kind of you, thank you my friend.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Very kind of you, thank you my friend.

You are welcome,