[REL] Open Horizons II (old thread)

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Though this is a noble idea, I see a couple of potential problems. Are you leaving the convoys randomized, or will they be scripted with the actual ships? Will you even have the specific individual convoys or will all the 'HX' convoys be represented by a route with the actual convoys randomized? The reason I ask is that if every specific convoy is placed on the map, players will be able to look them up and track them from start to finish, which ends up being less realistic rather than more.

Ducimus faced a similar problem in his work on SH4. Which is more realistic - having things exactly as they were, which gives the player information he wouldn't have had in real life, or making things worse than they really were, which makes the player realistically cautious?


Not every nation had every kind of ship. Estonia, for example, had only twenty-three ships in her merchant fleet, and the very newest of them was built back in 1918. I can help provide a lot of the information on individual ships based on the research I've done for my SH3 Ship Names mod, but as I said I believe there's a possibility that the more detailed you make it the less realistic it becomes, since hindsight gives us information no one could possibly have had at the time.

Steve, the SH5 campaign engine is very different form any previous version, its brilliant and Im in love with it. Now that I have learned the basic knowhow, we can do amazing things with it. Its just a question of time and manpower as rewriting the wole campaign its a huge task.

How it will work? Well, there are 2 possibilities. Using every convoy historical route by forcing them to follow a scripted path, or let them having their own fate by just pointing out when and where to start and where to end, so the route is their own decision. I choose the second option, no scripted route. That way, you will never find the same convoy in the same spot, no matter how many time you play the mission. And you may never find these convoys and blame me by a lousy job, just because their randomness when choosing a route

How convoys works right now in SH5? The system is based on generic ships and convoys. Every major convoy name is already set in the game and they appear in the game at their correct timetable. For example, there a generic convoy named HX_ that will leave Halifax to Liverpool every 5 day between 40-41 set with FollowPath=False. These are the big convoy we see in the game. Even the liners and famous battleships are in and they sail at their correct date. Found out that Bismarck and Hood are set to leave ports also on their historical date, but dunno if they ever will meet. Because the campaign is based on randomness and if they meet an enemy on route, there will be delays. Not to mention the mines I already put into the campaign.. they can seriously interfere with the traffic :P

Anyway, my plan is to add every important convoy to the campaign at the exact date and if possible with the exact content. So there will no more only brit or american convoys and you may wanna be more careful when choosing a target. I could go further with this and add every ship in the convoy their original name, load and ship type.. but thats already way to much work.

Now Im placing in the campaign the convoys from the list provided by Jaguar, already done with half. What is more important in this plan, is the escort size. No more convoys where the escorts are more than the merchants. So Steve, if you can and want to help with more info on the convoys, you have new ideas .. you are more than welcome to contribute as I know you are expert with these things. Im glad you asked, thanks.

Btw, Im using convoyweb.org.uk for details on these convoys, if anyone else have a better online database, pls let me now.

[sentenc3]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Btw, Im using convoyweb.org.uk for details on these convoys, if anyone else have a better online database, pls let me now.

I leave here a link to another page of the convoys, if it's any more help

http://www.warsailors.com/convoys/index.html

[Zedi]

Booth sites are cross linked, using each other data.

But there are few differences, for example HX90 with 49 merchants and only 3 escort according to uboat.net vs 41 merchants and 8 escorts (35 ships TDS) on Hague's records.

The difference is because on route convoys merged or ships left and also new escorts were assigned, but I cannot do this in the campaign engine. So Ive put 40 merchants and 8 escorts for now.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Zedi

But there are few differences, for example HX90 with 49 merchants and only 3 escort according to uboat.net vs 41 merchants and 8 escorts (35 ships TDS) on Hague's records.
The difference is because on route convoys merged or ships left and also new escorts were assigned, but I cannot do this in the campaign engine. So Ive put 40 merchants and 8 escorts for now.

HX90 is indeed a good example. According to Hague´s it departed from Halifax on 21 november 1940 and arrived at Liverpool on december 5. It had 8 escorts according to Hagues´s records:
HMCS Assiniboine- DD of C class, escort 21-22/11 (*)
HMS Folkestone - sloop of Folkestone class, escort 02-05/12
HMCS French - auxiliary patrol vessel, escort 21/11(*)
HMS Gentian - corvette Flower class, escort 02-05/12
HMS Laconia - AMC, escort 21/11-02/12
HMS Vanquisher - DD, V&W class, escort 05/12
HMS Viscount - DD, V&W class, escort 01-05/12
HMCS Windflower - corvette Flower class, escort 21/11(*)

Those three ships (*) only escorted the convoy near Halifax. Actually, between 22/11 and 01/12 the only escort available was the AMC Laconia so 5 escorts instead of 8 seems a good compromise IMHO .

Dunno if it´s possible but a suggestion would be to have small hunter killer groups patrolling around the western approaches. Coupled with IRAI´s ability to convoys send distress messages and be reinforced by near warships (within a 30 km radius?) it may be a usefull workaround. Or not .

[Zedi]

Speaking about weird escorts, see HX 79 ... they had a sub as escort

There are several HK groups patrolling, but to actually meet them is something based on luck. Is also very possible that none will notice these new convoys I added as the ocean is huge and they use very random routes. But if you will track the reports on map, that may help to track them down.

Anyway, this is hard. Worked almost all day and I managed to add only half from the list. I think this mod will take another month of hard work to get somewhere.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Zedi

/snip/
Anyway, this is hard. Worked almost all day and I managed to add only half from the list. I think this mod will take another month of hard work to get somewhere.

Take as long as you need. There's no rush.
I would rather wait and have a very good modded campaign, than a rushed and unfinished one.

[Sepp von Ch.]

But this mod with dolphins, sharks, mines, nets, icebergs etc. will be released too as a separate mod (not only not only as part of Magnum opus), right?

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Josef von Posorschitz

But this mod with dolphins, sharks, mines, nets, icebergs etc. will be released too as a separate mod (not only not only as part of Magnum opus), right?

I dunno

[THE_MASK]

Can the campaigns file structure be made more user/modder friemdly . What i mean by this is
Campaigns/CampaignProjects/Total_Germany/ (new folder)Ports/Willhelmshaven
In other words split the large PortTraffic_TG up into individual ports . This way someone could work on an individual port .

[Stormfly]

i know it is WIP and the whale is looking very good, but i must ask this:

...what is the shark doing, ...did he ate a Momsen Lung ?

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

i know it is WIP and the whale is looking very good, but i must ask this:

...what is the shark doing, ...did he ate a Momsen Lung ?

I just took out some olds mods from sh4... reworked a bit and installed in my sh5.. and that was all.. i know the sharks do not look good but i can not rework the animation...are used .dat files and i dunno to well to work with those files.... but the whale is nice

maybe tdw can try to rework the shark animation... and of cource we will need the autor permision to use i think... i do not want chun to hunt me again

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Josef von Posorschitz

But this mod with dolphins, sharks, mines, nets, icebergs etc. will be released too as a separate mod (not only not only as part of Magnum opus), right?

Separate and also included in new version of MO. None will be left out

I decided to release a test version of Mare Nostrum that include these stuff and also the the new ships worked out by TDW and Rongel. We need a public test to help improve and fix stuff. I need to make few adjustments then tomorrow or the day after the test version will be available for play.

[Stormfly]

can you post how much new different objets are included, you dont need to go to much into detail, i dont want to loose the supprise...

[Sepp von Ch.]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Separate and also included in new version of MO. None will be left out

I decided to release a test version of Mare Nostrum that include these stuff and also the the new ships worked out by TDW and Rongel. We need a public test to help improve and fix stuff. I need to make few adjustments then tomorrow or the day after the test version will be available for play.

Hello Zedi, thanks for answer. Sounds great!

This means that it will not be one the package with additional ships as in the case of Cerberus additional ships for the entire campaign?

I am now in 1944 - Open Horizons mod (and I looked forward to news ships and mines and icebergs).


I know that you are doing an excellent job and it takes much time... just ask ...