Sarah's speech in Wisconsin was hot tea

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes and no. At one time perhaps it was prudent God and politics was intermingled for a purpose of good. The country was loaded with people escaping religious persecution. From that, laws, bylaws created by newly designed politcal body that incorporated religion into a whole train of thought. Perhaps today that thought is not required anymore? We can not emphatically state that because a crowd is drawn to those that speak religion and politics all be it stupid or selling snake oil.

I agree, it's how they portray it. Even liberals will make statements on God.
It's when it becomes obvious a person wants to push their religious views through politics it becomes a problem.

History has taught us clearly when politics and religion mix the outcome is usually controlling and dire..

Sarah's made those kind of statements, that God is for the war, God is for this or that. She was a member of a fairly fundy pentacostal church, just watch the video's of her pastor praying over her. I thought after he got done he would give her a sword to slay all non believers, gay, muslims, etc..

Mike Huckabee is a fundy, but he also seems smart and honest, Sarah doesn't come across as either.

[August]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I agree, it's how they portray it. Even liberals will make statements on God.
It's when it becomes obvious a person wants to push their religious views through politics it becomes a problem.

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?

[AVGWarhawk]

God is for the war

I'm not sure how anyone could say God is for the war or any war for that matter. Speaking of which, religion has been the cause of many wars for over 2000 years.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?

Strawman argument.

Palin has made comments in the past that say that the government should be based on Christianity:

"Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our founding fathers, they were believers," said Palin. "And George Washington, he saw faith in God as basic to life."

another:

“I think we should keep this clean, keep it simple, go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant,” she said. “They’re quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 commandments, it’s pretty simple.”

Pushing your religion by saying that the government should be based around it makes you a proponent of a theocracy - how is that any different than any of the Middle Eastern countries based on Islam and Sharia?

[AVGWarhawk]

Pushing your religion by saying that the government should be based around it makes you a proponent of a theocracy - how is that any different than any of the Middle Eastern countries based on Islam and Sharia?

Good question and it does not make it any different. As stated above, religion has co-mingled in politics/law of the land since inception of laws of the land/politics.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Good question and it does not make it any different. As stated above, religion has co-mingled in politics/law of the land since inception of laws of the land/politics.

Certainly it has. Let's face it in about 400AD when christianity mixed with Rome, it became more political, eventually as powerful. That went on for hundreds of years, along with mass wars, torture, etc.. all in the name of God. Eventually man saw the evil of it and secular law became more powerful. However, residue from our past is still in politics today and many would love a christian theocracy running things. The problem is any time this has happened it was used to control people, not help them.

The GOP is basically for corporations, non funding of programs for the poor, etc, then they want God in government. I'm not sure what God these people serve, Christ commanded to take care of the poor, sick, widows, children, etc....they certainly don't want any of that through government, but have no problems pushing religious ideals through government.

[yubba]

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion, why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country, if you have a godless country you have a lawless country, just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you. These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them. If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by yubba

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion, why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country, if you have a godless country you have a lawless country, just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you. These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them. If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Not much trouble, not sure what you mean, our codes of laws first created by them gave everyone to seek God as they pleased with no interference.

I actually find liberals much more moral than the right, but certainly no side has a a monopoly of morals in government.

I guess we could bring back the churches old tools to keep people in line, you know, burnings, beheadings, cagings, disemboweled. Actually, I think I know a few here that could use some prayer in the old fashion..

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by yubba

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Hello hot button, called Religious ramrodding.

Screw that noise. I have enough strength of character to know right from wrong without the aid of an invisible all knowing father figure to tell me what to do. Unfortunately, not everyone in our society has the same strength of character, and needs a crutch. I'm guessing you need a crutch.

Here's your crutch. Enjoy.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by yubba

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion,

No they didn't, except for the part where they didn't want any religion running the country. James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution", didn't want Congress to have chaplains unless they paid them out of their own pockets, and he also didn't want any churches to get special priveledges or tax breaks. Jefferson was an absolute enemy of organized religion.

why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country,

Not really. Most of the original colonies were founded as business propositions.

if you have a godless country you have a lawless country,

How do you figure that? Most of our laws have nothing to do with religion at all, and it seems to be ingrained in man to be a social animal and to try to work together. Sure, religion can have a civilizing influence, but that doesn't mean that we are the way we are because of God; that is the reason implied by those who believe, but that doesn't make it so.

just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you.

That is true, but it applies just as much to the ones who believe as to the ones who don't. You see the non-believers as perverting our rights and using us for their own agendas. True, but others see the believers as subverting our rights for their own agendas, and no better than the non-believers. I see both, and the people who want to make this a "Christian" country (which, despite wishful thinking to the contrary it never was) as just as dangerous as the ones you're afraid of.

These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them.

Or "Natural" Rights". However they came about, they are ours, and Right is just as responsible for the out of control government as the Left. You seem to be trying to blame one side only for our problems, and you're wrong on that.

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

And that's strictly your belief, not proven fact.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by yubba

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Whatever happened to, "Let he among you without sin cast the first stone"? Like it or not, yubba, this country's been heading towards that cliff for a long time, regardless of who was in office. Absolute power has corrupted absolutely, in the very face of the predominant Christianity of this country.

I tend more to the left than the right, and happen to be an atheist. Guess this means I'm doomed, because I don't march to your conservative Christian drum? Looks like, at the worst, I'll be first against the wall when the Christian revolution comes, or if 'm lucky, perhaps just a lower-tiered "person of interest."

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Palin has made comments in the past that say that the government should be based on Christianity

So what?

Does any of it justify the sexism and bigotry that is continually displayed against this woman? Opposing her political beliefs is one thing but the things that have been said about her and especially her family have been unarguably reprehensible.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by August

So what?

Does any of it justify the sexism and bigotry that is continually displayed against this woman? Opposing her political beliefs is one thing but the things that have been said about her and especially her family have been unarguably reprehensible.

Is it unjust? Yep. Does it happen all the time? Yep.

Obama's citizenship is called into question by many; Palin's gender/religion are called into question. Kerry's service was called into question; photoshopped pics of him and Hanoi Jane, though debunked, served to brand his campaign ever after.

If you want ethics, look elsewhere. Once a person puts themselves in the public eye, especially for political office, expect the worst from their opponents. It's how we come to expect the game to be played, and it's all part of the "show" anymore. It sucks... it's dishonest, unethical, crude, and yes - reprehensible - what both sides will do to discredit the other. And it's business as usual until enough Americans decide that we're tired of being the ones to foot the bills and still get the smelly end of the stick.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

So what?

The "so what" of it is you took Armistead's argument, made it into some strawman about politicians not being able believe in God or some nonsense, and ran with it. I brought it back to his original point: it is a problem when people push their religious beliefs into government, or advocate such. Sarah Palin has done so on numerous occasions.

Do you deny that conflating politics and religion is a bad idea?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by August

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?

Sure, but I have a problem when any party uses religion to promote an agenda.

Palin, her past church and pastors are all known "Dominionist" that christians should take over public office and create a christian only state and impose christian doctrine by law. She runs from it now, but too many video's of her speaking on it at church and meetings. She even stated in the last days people will flock to Alaska to escape the NWO and the church needed to be ready to take care of them...and of course offerings were taken up.

Simply, another Reformation...

All one need do is watch her interviews, enough to make you cringe that she even had a chance in the White House.

Really watch the last part of the interview when the radical preacher speaks then prays over Sarah...Listen to what he said, getting rid of all over religions through government, etc...scary stuff.

I'll all for the local church, people telling others about their beliefs, but also for people having the right to chose what they believe.