Eurozone still dodgy

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

If Spain went under would that be enough to see the end of the EU?

The eU? No, unfortunately. the Euro? Also no, they intend to leave it there no matter how high the costs will become. The EU meanwhile plans to directly tax European citizens, the Polish EU minister has made according plans more precise, and wants that the eU at least gets one third of it'S current budgets from European private people'S pockets direectly, so that the EU gets its income even if states and nations refuse to pay their budget obligations or want to threaten to cut their budgets if the EU does not stop to act like a head with a bigger azz around it. And I tell you, Germany, althoigh having the ghreatest interest of all to stop this madness, will be one of the loudest voices to defend these EU taxes (Schaüble already did), becasue shortsighted as they are they just see that there is a saving for the national budget if parts of the German EU budget now needs to be payed not by the state, but the German workers directly.

Blow up the parliament, I say. V like Vendetta. We are getting betrayed and betrayed and betrayed.

As for the news item this dose not surprise me at all. I hear the UK could be hit by Moody's downgrade rating if the country dose not pick up.

Germany as well. Rating agencies have realised since several months now that Gemany has shouldered more oblgations with those Euro bailout mechanisms than it can endure.

Japan does not make it easier. Plus the economic debacle that Japan was in already before the Tsnunami hit Fukushima.

We will get presented the bills for our economic sins and shortsighted stupidities. And maybe we do not have any right to complain, but just get what we deserve by having let it gone too far, for too long. It is in the people'S hands to sent politicians, lobbies and governments to hell - eithe rby elections,l and if that cannot work anymore, then by revolutions and violent force. But people don't do that. So...

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The eU? No, unfortunately. the Euro? Also no, they intend to leave it there no matter how high the costs will become.

Well that's Danny for Spain, you go under your too big, stuff you.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Germany as well. Rating agencies have realised since several months now that Gemany has shouldered more oblgations with those Euro bailout mechanisms than it can endure.

Interesting you say that Sky, the media here is saying Germany is doing well and going from strength to strength. Just shows you can not trust what the media tells us.

[Gerald]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=182464

[Happy Times]

‘True Finns’ Threaten EU Bailout Plans

In theory, a new Finnish government that is opposed to further bailouts of euro-zone countries could prevent new rescue loans, since they have to be agreed unanimously by all euro members.

“It is outrageous that countries which have governed their economy badly are now putting their problems and debt on to Finnish taxpayers, that is not our duty to take on,” Mr. Soini says.

Anger at the bailouts has been a factor driving a rise in support for the right-of-center National Front in France’s recent local elections, and contributed to the weak performance of Germany’s governing parties in recent state elections.

So far, Finland has committed to guarantee almost €8 billion related to the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), and further guarantees and investments of €12.58 billion related to the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), which is planned to begin functioning in 2013. Finland has also given a €1.48 billion loan to Greece, a €160 million loan to Iceland and promised a €324 million loan to Latvia.

http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/04/...bailout-plans/

Hope they win, have to vote tommorow.

So the Finns have allready a comitment of 25 billion Euros to this crisis and when Spain and Italy go what then?

I think Finlands budget is something like 50-60 billion but guess sky is the limit in holding on to an unhealthy currency.

[MH]

I know nothing about economics but it seems as EU is run by a sort of comunist system.
Kind of wealth distribution.

[Gerald]

The EU is the top down and bureaucratic, but not communist, if you mean it in explicit terms, but there are several reasons why there are problems within the Union, and one is of course the General recession, and the judgments of individual countries' economic boast, since the enlargement of The EU has gone too fast, there are many factors these may be relatively low in the context of what is purely a problem...

[MH]

Originally Posted by Vendor

The EU is the top down and bureaucratic, but not communist, if you mean it in explicit terms, but there are several reasons why there are problems within the Union, and one is of course the General recession, and the judgments of individual countries' economic boast, since the enlargement of The EU has gone too fast, there are many factors these may be relatively low in the context of what is purely a problem...

If so it seems EU must step backward few steps before moving on.
To bring about sort of economical unity.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

I know nothing about economics but it seems as EU is run by a sort of comunist system.
Kind of wealth distribution.

Some years ago in this forum, I have repeatedly objected claims that Europe is somewhat a "socialist" place, and there were quite some hot debates back then.

But over the years since then, I had to chnage my mind, also, the situation has dramatically changed over here, and maybe I need to be thankful for the economic crisis that started 2008 or so, becasue it revealed in kind of a crash course the real attitude of many political factions here that else would have allowed to continue their erosive work while hiding their socialist agenda for some longer time.

I still insist on the difference between "social" and "socialist", but I must admit that the EU is being turned more into a socialist dictatorship with monumental deficits in democratric legitimiation and representation, than anything else. They even openly talk about planned economies over here now. Beinmg solidaric with the victim of circumstances, is fine. Being aware of social needs and accepting a certain responsibility to adress them, is fine, too, I'm all for it. But now we have a monumental abuse of solidarity that is being turned into some states blackmailing all others "If you do not pay for us not wanting to change, then we pull you all down with us", and social responsibility is being turned into socialist party tyranny.

To hell with all of that.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

Interesting you say that Sky, the media here is saying Germany is doing well and going from strength to strength. Just shows you can not trust what the media tells us.

It'S true that at the moment Germany's exports are so strong that we cannot walk for muscles. But it is a mistake to look just at exports. You have to balance that by a multitude of factors, namely age-shift, future pensions to be payed, deficit explosion due to the Euro, the extreme strategic dependency of Germany from foreign markets due to its export dependency, and then again the Euro crunch, the Euro, the Euro, the Euro.

Soliodarity is all nice and well, but to me solidarity means not more than to lend a hand so that somebody having fallen into a pit or being sdtruck by hjard times wiothiout his mistake has the needed opportunity to recoiver and come to his own strength again. But in the EU, soldiarity is one of the many terms they now cokmpletely abuse. Today it means that you also compensate for those who cause their own misery actively and are responsible for that, you reward those who run mismanagement and incompetence and refuse to start new and oinstead claim more "solidarity" so that they get payed out and can afford to simply not chnage and keep their erratic system run ov at the cvost of others. This is no solidarity, but parasytic egoism, and I cry for every German tax cent being thrown after this.

Just this morning I read a brief reportt in a German paper that says that the EU ministers secretly have just found out that all the money that has been sunk in Greece so far over the past 12 months has done NOTHING to have the Greek state acchieved any real changes for the better, this is becasue in the face of massive protests on the street the state has shied away from formerly promised and needed drastic reforms. While in Germany pesnion age is being increased from 65 to 67, in several mediterranean countries they protest against their pensions ages of 57, 58 even being considered for being pushed upwards. Instead, they demand more moneys from the German employess - wqho that way are expected to directly work for the interest of foreign people and accept even harder working conditions on their own behalf. Latest decisions in brussel that also were supported by the Germans have effectively installed this mechanism of constantly transfering money from some paying countries to these receivers as a truly unlimited mechanism over time, without time limit. And that is what makes the currency union a transfer union indeed.

This dfoes not only weaken the German and other paying national economies, but it weakens the receiving economies as well. It weakens everybody by preventing a necessary healing process that could lead to healthier conditions and more strength.

In other words this Euro union was a stillbirth from beginning on, and never will be anything else but a big, huge pile of stinking bull from A to Z.